Comments on: Politically Correct Fourth Graders http://cwmemory.com/2009/02/24/politically-correct-fourth-graders/ Where History, Heritage, and Education Intersect Thu, 24 May 2012 01:47:06 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Robert Moore http://cwmemory.com/2009/02/24/politically-correct-fourth-graders/#comment-6859 Robert Moore Thu, 09 Apr 2009 13:15:35 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=2904#comment-6859 In a word... "context." The song no longer takes on the same significance to SOME that it did back then. Marylanders were by no means unified behind the sentiment of this person who wrote the song back then, so why in the heck is the song continuing to carry on and project the sentiment of only part of the Marylanders who were even around back then? There's no point. The song should be archived as a piece through which we can understand part of Maryland's past. It has no relevance to the greater population of Maryland as it is today. In a word… “context.” The song no longer takes on the same significance to SOME that it did back then. Marylanders were by no means unified behind the sentiment of this person who wrote the song back then, so why in the heck is the song continuing to carry on and project the sentiment of only part of the Marylanders who were even around back then? There’s no point. The song should be archived as a piece through which we can understand part of Maryland’s past. It has no relevance to the greater population of Maryland as it is today.

]]> By: Jim http://cwmemory.com/2009/02/24/politically-correct-fourth-graders/#comment-6858 Jim Thu, 09 Apr 2009 13:07:53 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=2904#comment-6858 The song was written by a Marylander angry at the murder of his fellow Baltimore citizens by the hands of Federal soldiers. Apparently ignoring the true meaning of responding to overstretched authority and villifying southern sympathies is today's game. Many liberals are interested in changing everything that doesn't fit into their modern view of progressive values. My opinion is to leave the song alone. The song was written by a Marylander angry at the murder of his fellow Baltimore citizens by the hands of Federal soldiers. Apparently ignoring the true meaning of responding to overstretched authority and villifying southern sympathies is today’s game. Many liberals are interested in changing everything that doesn’t fit into their modern view of progressive values. My opinion is to leave the song alone.

]]> By: Remembering the Revolution in Maryland « Past in the Present http://cwmemory.com/2009/02/24/politically-correct-fourth-graders/#comment-6486 Remembering the Revolution in Maryland « Past in the Present Mon, 16 Mar 2009 15:32:11 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=2904#comment-6486 [...] state stong bounced around the historical blogosphere a few weeks ago.  I think Kevin Levin initiated the discussion, and then Richard G. Williams weighed in here and [...] [...] state stong bounced around the historical blogosphere a few weeks ago.  I think Kevin Levin initiated the discussion, and then Richard G. Williams weighed in here and [...]

]]> By: Sherree Tannen http://cwmemory.com/2009/02/24/politically-correct-fourth-graders/#comment-6136 Sherree Tannen Fri, 27 Feb 2009 21:50:49 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=2904#comment-6136 John, I think that if you will stay tuned, you will see that many of Kevin's readers agree with you on many points. Also, if you will visit the blogs of Robert Moore (Cenantua) Greg Rowe and Vicki Bynum you will feel at home. Thank you for responding, and again I thank our host for this forum. Sherree John,

I think that if you will stay tuned, you will see that many of Kevin’s readers agree with you on many points. Also, if you will visit the blogs of Robert Moore (Cenantua) Greg Rowe and Vicki Bynum you will feel at home. Thank you for responding, and again I thank our host for this forum. Sherree

]]> By: John Cummings http://cwmemory.com/2009/02/24/politically-correct-fourth-graders/#comment-6133 John Cummings Fri, 27 Feb 2009 17:54:47 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=2904#comment-6133 No Sherree, I would not even begin to approach reinstating the song. Far too much water under a bridge that has a dam in front of it. I am simply worried about assumptions based on lack of information. Why would a black man write a song that would be offensive to others of his own race? Was he selling out? Or was he just using the language of the day? How does it reconcile? Would he be upset if you told him you thought his work was offensive? What will the future judge of sexism and racism from some of todays Hip Hop artists? I am really fearful of a world as foretold in the novel "Fahrenheit 451". Did you read my post about it in this thread? My interest in the Civil War has evolved considerably over the years, but I'm back to where I started. I have ancestors who fought from the North and the South. I can't disrespect any of their memories. I am non partisan now and I respectfully study both sides. There are far too many variations on why these men fought to be biased today. Their world was stunningly different from ours in all respects. I would hate to think of a day when remembering either of them would be considered a hate crime because it dredged up a bad thought for someone. All roads lead to Rome they say. My study will not be governed by one single political motive. When I do my research in assorted archives or explore the terrain where these men fought I see them in their moment. I know all the causes and the accusations of why the war was fought, but I seperate that from their moments of anguish on the field of battle. There is no easy use of the Mason/Dixon line today but somehow we have a pretty evenly divided country as all the red state/blue state coverage will show you. But what is the driving force behind this divide? Economic policy. Party partisanship. Difference in philosphy. And it is spread from sea to shining sea. Is it based on race? No. We are not the nation of 1860, not even close. The United States has changed so much for the better since the Civil Rights Movement that it is an injustice to suggest otherwise. How many people, right now, realize that if you do the math and factor in inflation, that the total cost to this nation of waging the Civil War is equal to the current cost of bailing out the auto industry? Over $130 billion. No Sherree, I would not even begin to approach reinstating the song. Far too much water under a bridge that has a dam in front of it.
I am simply worried about assumptions based on lack of information. Why would a black man write a song that would be offensive to others of his own race? Was he selling out? Or was he just using the language of the day? How does it reconcile? Would he be upset if you told him you thought his work was offensive? What will the future judge of sexism and racism from some of todays Hip Hop artists?
I am really fearful of a world as foretold in the novel “Fahrenheit 451″. Did you read my post about it in this thread?
My interest in the Civil War has evolved considerably over the years, but I’m back to where I started. I have ancestors who fought from the North and the South. I can’t disrespect any of their memories. I am non partisan now and I respectfully study both sides. There are far too many variations on why these men fought to be biased today. Their world was stunningly different from ours in all respects. I would hate to think of a day when remembering either of them would be considered a hate crime because it dredged up a bad thought for someone. All roads lead to Rome they say.
My study will not be governed by one single political motive. When I do my research in assorted archives or explore the terrain where these men fought I see them in their moment. I know all the causes and the accusations of why the war was fought, but I seperate that from their moments of anguish on the field of battle.
There is no easy use of the Mason/Dixon line today but somehow we have a pretty evenly divided country as all the red state/blue state coverage will show you. But what is the driving force behind this divide? Economic policy. Party partisanship. Difference in philosphy. And it is spread from sea to shining sea. Is it based on race? No. We are not the nation of 1860, not even close.
The United States has changed so much for the better since the Civil Rights Movement that it is an injustice to suggest otherwise.
How many people, right now, realize that if you do the math and factor in inflation, that the total cost to this nation of waging the Civil War is equal to the current cost of bailing out the auto industry? Over $130 billion.

]]> By: Sherree Tannen http://cwmemory.com/2009/02/24/politically-correct-fourth-graders/#comment-6132 Sherree Tannen Fri, 27 Feb 2009 16:44:01 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=2904#comment-6132 John, you didn't answer the question. Do you advocate a return of the song "Carry me back to ole Virginny" as Virginia's state song? If you do, then we don't agree, and we will have to agree to disagree. It is a terribly offensive and racist song, no matter what the history behind it, and as one reader remarked here, why do we have to be bound to the past, and particularly to a past like that? We don't. Democracy is fluid and alive, and we have the power and the right to create it and recreate it with each generation. John, you didn’t answer the question. Do you advocate a return of the song “Carry me back to ole Virginny” as Virginia’s state song? If you do, then we don’t agree, and we will have to agree to disagree. It is a terribly offensive and racist song, no matter what the history behind it, and as one reader remarked here, why do we have to be bound to the past, and particularly to a past like that? We don’t. Democracy is fluid and alive, and we have the power and the right to create it and recreate it with each generation.

]]> By: Sherree Tannen http://cwmemory.com/2009/02/24/politically-correct-fourth-graders/#comment-6130 Sherree Tannen Fri, 27 Feb 2009 16:15:42 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=2904#comment-6130 Thanks again for the dialogue, Kevin. And thank you, John. In the above comment, I said that maybe a day will come in our nation in which citizens of other races will not have to ask white Americans for what should be freely and gladly given to them. It goes even further than that, as I know the readers of this blog know. White men and women are not in a position to give anything to anyone. The rights and respect being either requested or demanded by other races are inalienable, and not possessed by white men and women to give or not give. It comes down to a matter of perception and empathy. And none of us is any better at it than any other, including, of course--and especially--myself. Thanks again for the dialogue, Kevin. And thank you, John. In the above comment, I said that maybe a day will come in our nation in which citizens of other races will not have to ask white Americans for what should be freely and gladly given to them. It goes even further than that, as I know the readers of this blog know. White men and women are not in a position to give anything to anyone. The rights and respect being either requested or demanded by other races are inalienable, and not possessed by white men and women to give or not give. It comes down to a matter of perception and empathy. And none of us is any better at it than any other, including, of course–and especially–myself.

]]> By: John Cummings http://cwmemory.com/2009/02/24/politically-correct-fourth-graders/#comment-6129 John Cummings Fri, 27 Feb 2009 16:12:44 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=2904#comment-6129 Since this thread has contained so much of the history behind song origins and adaptations of tunes with new lyrics (wow, who would have thought the Japanese aversion to Oh, Christmas Tree!), I offer up an adaptation of Blue Oyster Cult's "Don't Fear the Reaper". I hope everyone watching at home will sing along: All our times have come Here but now they're gone People don't fear your heritage Nor the wearin’ of the Blue and the Gray...we can be like they were Come on everyone...don't fear your heritage People take a hand...don't fear your heritage Be you black or white...don't fear your heritage Come on take a stand... Four long years is done Here but now they're gone U. S. Grant and R. E. Lee Are together in eternity...U. S. Grant and R. E. Lee 650,000 men wounded or KIA...Loved U. S. Grant and R. E. Lee 650,000 men wounded or KIA...Redefined sacrifice All 650,000 casualties...We can honor their lives Come on people...don't fear your heritage Come on take a hand...don't fear your heritage Be you black or white...don't fear your heritage Come on take a stand... There was two now one Here but now they're gone Came the last night of sadness And it was clear it couldn't go on Then the door was open and the wind appeared The candles blew then disappeared The curtains flew then they appeared...saying don't be afraid Come on everyone...we should have no fear And the end was now at hand...and one flag started to fly No looking backward and sad goodbye...let’s become like they are They had taken a stand...let’s become like they are Come on everyone...don't fear your heritage Since this thread has contained so much of the history behind song origins and adaptations of tunes with new lyrics (wow, who would have thought the Japanese aversion to Oh, Christmas Tree!), I offer up an adaptation of Blue Oyster Cult’s “Don’t Fear the Reaper”. I hope everyone watching at home will sing along:

All our times have come
Here but now they’re gone
People don’t fear your heritage
Nor the wearin’ of the Blue and the Gray…we can be like they were
Come on everyone…don’t fear your heritage
People take a hand…don’t fear your heritage
Be you black or white…don’t fear your heritage
Come on take a stand…

Four long years is done
Here but now they’re gone
U. S. Grant and R. E. Lee
Are together in eternity…U. S. Grant and R. E. Lee
650,000 men wounded or KIA…Loved U. S. Grant and R. E. Lee
650,000 men wounded or KIA…Redefined sacrifice
All 650,000 casualties…We can honor their lives
Come on people…don’t fear your heritage
Come on take a hand…don’t fear your heritage
Be you black or white…don’t fear your heritage
Come on take a stand…

There was two now one
Here but now they’re gone
Came the last night of sadness
And it was clear it couldn’t go on
Then the door was open and the wind appeared
The candles blew then disappeared
The curtains flew then they appeared…saying don’t be afraid
Come on everyone…we should have no fear
And the end was now at hand…and one flag started to fly
No looking backward and sad goodbye…let’s become like they are
They had taken a stand…let’s become like they are
Come on everyone…don’t fear your heritage

]]> By: Sherree Tannen http://cwmemory.com/2009/02/24/politically-correct-fourth-graders/#comment-6127 Sherree Tannen Fri, 27 Feb 2009 15:39:54 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=2904#comment-6127 John, I don't know where you went, but I visited your blog and I really like it. I like the way, in particular, that you talk about the rural life that you knew growing up. A lot of that has disappeared, and not for the better. Speaking as a reader of this blog for almost a year now, I can tell you that Kevin does indeed provide a level playing field. There are some sharp jabs that go back and forth periodically, but that is to be expected due to the nature of the issues being discussed. I think that if we all dropped the terms "politically correct" and "revisionist history" and any number of other buzz phrases, that better dialogue would naturally result. These are difficult issues, but not insurmountable. You love Virginia. I love Virginia. Other readers who are Virginians love Virginia. And Kevin, who is also a Virginian, loves Virginia, so yes, you could say that, in that respect, we are all one happy family and that as Tolstoy so famously said in his opening line to Anna Karenina, "All happy familes resemble one another, but each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way." That is a nonsequitur for sure, but it sounds good, so I'll leave it, lol. John,

I don’t know where you went, but I visited your blog and I really like it. I like the way, in particular, that you talk about the rural life that you knew growing up. A lot of that has disappeared, and not for the better.

Speaking as a reader of this blog for almost a year now, I can tell you that Kevin does indeed provide a level playing field. There are some sharp jabs that go back and forth periodically, but that is to be expected due to the nature of the issues being discussed. I think that if we all dropped the terms “politically correct” and “revisionist history” and any number of other buzz phrases, that better dialogue would naturally result. These are difficult issues, but not insurmountable. You love Virginia. I love Virginia. Other readers who are Virginians love Virginia. And Kevin, who is also a Virginian, loves Virginia, so yes, you could say that, in that respect, we are all one happy family and that as Tolstoy so famously said in his opening line to Anna Karenina, “All happy familes resemble one another, but each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.” That is a nonsequitur for sure, but it sounds good, so I’ll leave it, lol.

]]> By: Kevin Levin http://cwmemory.com/2009/02/24/politically-correct-fourth-graders/#comment-6126 Kevin Levin Fri, 27 Feb 2009 14:57:17 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=2904#comment-6126 This is a forum for readers to share your thoughts with one another. By all means, go for it. This is a forum for readers to share your thoughts with one another. By all means, go for it.

]]> By: Sherree Tannen http://cwmemory.com/2009/02/24/politically-correct-fourth-graders/#comment-6124 Sherree Tannen Fri, 27 Feb 2009 14:51:45 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=2904#comment-6124 John, Perhaps I did misunderstand you. I take it that you are not, therefore, advocating that we reinstate "Carry me back to old Virginny " as Virginia's state song. In other words, you agree that the song should have been retired. Kevin, you are the host. If you want no more comments, please say so, and I will cease and desist. John,

Perhaps I did misunderstand you. I take it that you are not, therefore, advocating that we reinstate “Carry me back to old Virginny ” as Virginia’s state song. In other words, you agree that the song should have been retired. Kevin, you are the host. If you want no more comments, please say so, and I will cease and desist.

]]> By: John Cummings http://cwmemory.com/2009/02/24/politically-correct-fourth-graders/#comment-6123 John Cummings Fri, 27 Feb 2009 14:47:56 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=2904#comment-6123 I'm always looking to find a level playing field. I’m always looking to find a level playing field.

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