Comments on: Should the SCV and Richmond Partner to Improve Oakwood? http://cwmemory.com/2009/04/13/should-the-scv-and-richmond-partner-to-improve-oakwood/ Where History, Heritage, and Education Intersect Thu, 24 May 2012 01:47:06 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Peter http://cwmemory.com/2009/04/13/should-the-scv-and-richmond-partner-to-improve-oakwood/#comment-7142 Peter Thu, 16 Apr 2009 20:38:38 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=3422#comment-7142 Jim, You misinterpret my comments. The SCV wants something that Richmond is not currently granting them; conceding to avoid the things that usually cause a negative spectacle within Richmond might be a way to demonstrate to the City that they are not crazed racists. So it may be an issue of "political correctness," but one I think that speaks to the situation at hand. If the SCV is concerned about unmarked graves, overgrown plots, and the like, then making such an offer would allow them to honor their ancestors. I do not know if they have made such an offer, but to me "proper commemoration" is their pc term for "Lost Cause pageantry." Jim,
You misinterpret my comments. The SCV wants something that Richmond is not currently granting them; conceding to avoid the things that usually cause a negative spectacle within Richmond might be a way to demonstrate to the City that they are not crazed racists. So it may be an issue of “political correctness,” but one I think that speaks to the situation at hand. If the SCV is concerned about unmarked graves, overgrown plots, and the like, then making such an offer would allow them to honor their ancestors. I do not know if they have made such an offer, but to me “proper commemoration” is their pc term for “Lost Cause pageantry.”

]]> By: Jim http://cwmemory.com/2009/04/13/should-the-scv-and-richmond-partner-to-improve-oakwood/#comment-7135 Jim Thu, 16 Apr 2009 19:17:06 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=3422#comment-7135 I like some of Peter's suggestions except for the parts infringing upon freedom of expression. Perhaps tensions might be defused among Native Americans, as one example, if we no longer flew the Stars and Stripes. And of course, living history parks all across the country give an enriched context and environment when they are in period costume. How this differs from applying the same standards to Confederate history is a question for those who argue for political correctness. I like some of Peter’s suggestions except for the parts infringing upon freedom of expression. Perhaps tensions might be defused among Native Americans, as one example, if we no longer flew the Stars and Stripes. And of course, living history parks all across the country give an enriched context and environment when they are in period costume. How this differs from applying the same standards to Confederate history is a question for those who argue for political correctness.

]]> By: Peter http://cwmemory.com/2009/04/13/should-the-scv-and-richmond-partner-to-improve-oakwood/#comment-7104 Peter Wed, 15 Apr 2009 22:44:53 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=3422#comment-7104 Well, I think the easy solution to this problem would be for the SCV to agree to maintain the and groom the gravesites and maintain the dignity of the Confederate veterans. They might defuse tensions by pledging not to hold ceremonies with constumed folks running about or brandishing Confederate flags (of any variety). Confederate symbols and slogans could be permitted on headstones to mark the graves, to properly note and commemorate the service of the men buried under them. Well, I think the easy solution to this problem would be for the SCV to agree to maintain the and groom the gravesites and maintain the dignity of the Confederate veterans. They might defuse tensions by pledging not to hold ceremonies with constumed folks running about or brandishing Confederate flags (of any variety). Confederate symbols and slogans could be permitted on headstones to mark the graves, to properly note and commemorate the service of the men buried under them.

]]> By: Jim http://cwmemory.com/2009/04/13/should-the-scv-and-richmond-partner-to-improve-oakwood/#comment-7100 Jim Wed, 15 Apr 2009 21:34:12 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=3422#comment-7100 Bob, the Lee monument is maintained by the state of VA, and the others were put there by the city. Who wants a city in disrepair? Therefore, the monuments and cemetery should be maintained the same way the roads and the sidewalks, etc. are maintained. Some would let infrastructure crumble before they paid, but Richmond should take care of it as they always have without this becoming a racial/political grandstand. Really, what's the alternative? Bob, the Lee monument is maintained by the state of VA, and the others were put there by the city. Who wants a city in disrepair? Therefore, the monuments and cemetery should be maintained the same way the roads and the sidewalks, etc. are maintained. Some would let infrastructure crumble before they paid, but Richmond should take care of it as they always have without this becoming a racial/political grandstand. Really, what’s the alternative?

]]> By: Kevin Levin http://cwmemory.com/2009/04/13/should-the-scv-and-richmond-partner-to-improve-oakwood/#comment-7084 Kevin Levin Wed, 15 Apr 2009 18:24:21 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=3422#comment-7084 Bob, I agree that the Ashe monument seems out of place, but I wonder if that has more to do with the monument itself rather than the location. You are right in pointing out that these issues cannot be divided along racial lines. Once again, the issue is much more complex, which is clearly something that not everyone can handle when there is something personal at stake. Bob,

I agree that the Ashe monument seems out of place, but I wonder if that has more to do with the monument itself rather than the location. You are right in pointing out that these issues cannot be divided along racial lines. Once again, the issue is much more complex, which is clearly something that not everyone can handle when there is something personal at stake.

]]> By: Bob Pollock http://cwmemory.com/2009/04/13/should-the-scv-and-richmond-partner-to-improve-oakwood/#comment-7082 Bob Pollock Wed, 15 Apr 2009 17:50:42 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=3422#comment-7082 Jim, I wouldn't be so quick to assume "support for the maintenance, access, and any other form of Confederate remembrance of the cemetery is split down racial lines." I visited Richmond a few years ago. I toured the "Confederate White House, " visited the Museum of the Confederacy, and Monument Avenue. As a tourist I was fascinated by the history of it all. And, I agree with you that the Ashe monument seems out of place, though perhaps that is because there are all those monuments to Confederates and only one monument to another famous Virginian. But, and here is the big "but," - I'm not black and I don't live in Richmond. I have to agree with Kevin's point that commemoration can often be modern day propaganda, and that is the rub. Who will decide what is "tasteful and accurate"? Jim,

I wouldn’t be so quick to assume “support for the maintenance, access, and any other form of Confederate remembrance of the cemetery is split down racial lines.” I visited Richmond a few years ago. I toured the “Confederate White House, ” visited the Museum of the Confederacy, and Monument Avenue. As a tourist I was fascinated by the history of it all. And, I agree with you that the Ashe monument seems out of place, though perhaps that is because there are all those monuments to Confederates and only one monument to another famous Virginian. But, and here is the big “but,” – I’m not black and I don’t live in Richmond. I have to agree with Kevin’s point that commemoration can often be modern day propaganda, and that is the rub. Who will decide what is “tasteful and accurate”?

]]> By: Jim http://cwmemory.com/2009/04/13/should-the-scv-and-richmond-partner-to-improve-oakwood/#comment-7068 Jim Wed, 15 Apr 2009 15:56:19 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=3422#comment-7068 Peter, I'm sure support for the maintenance, access, and any other form of Confederate remembrance of the cemetery is split down racial lines. I see El-Amin and others unnecessarily fanning the flames of racial division. But regardless of who lives in Richmond and in what proportions, these cemeteries ought to be properly maintained, and if descendants and/or planning officials, etc. wish to tastefully and accurately enhance the cemetery with better headstones, etc. then no one should stand in the way. And I do believe that the city/state has a commitment to maintain a minimum amount of funding for maintenance that would prevent the decay of both the cemetery and the monuments. Call me controversial, but I also think it incongruous to put a champion tennis star among an area of exclusive CW era monuments. This opinion has nothing to do with race and Ashe deserves equal prominence to any other, but it just seems out of place to me. Does anyone else see it this way? Of course, what's done is done. Peter, I’m sure support for the maintenance, access, and any other form of Confederate remembrance of the cemetery is split down racial lines. I see El-Amin and others unnecessarily fanning the flames of racial division. But regardless of who lives in Richmond and in what proportions, these cemeteries ought to be properly maintained, and if descendants and/or planning officials, etc. wish to tastefully and accurately enhance the cemetery with better headstones, etc. then no one should stand in the way. And I do believe that the city/state has a commitment to maintain a minimum amount of funding for maintenance that would prevent the decay of both the cemetery and the monuments.

Call me controversial, but I also think it incongruous to put a champion tennis star among an area of exclusive CW era monuments. This opinion has nothing to do with race and Ashe deserves equal prominence to any other, but it just seems out of place to me. Does anyone else see it this way? Of course, what’s done is done.

]]> By: Peter http://cwmemory.com/2009/04/13/should-the-scv-and-richmond-partner-to-improve-oakwood/#comment-7049 Peter Wed, 15 Apr 2009 02:42:47 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=3422#comment-7049 Jim, Sa'ad El-Amin was so much of a radical fringe element that somehow he kept getting re-elected, at least until he landed in the Federal pen. And what exactly is "proper commemoration?" I am sure that voters in Richmond may be concerned that the SCV's definition of "honorable" and "proper commemoration" might be radically different from their notions of what that means. Jim,

Sa’ad El-Amin was so much of a radical fringe element that somehow he kept getting re-elected, at least until he landed in the Federal pen.

And what exactly is “proper commemoration?” I am sure that voters in Richmond may be concerned that the SCV’s definition of “honorable” and “proper commemoration” might be radically different from their notions of what that means.

]]> By: Jim http://cwmemory.com/2009/04/13/should-the-scv-and-richmond-partner-to-improve-oakwood/#comment-7041 Jim Tue, 14 Apr 2009 21:09:32 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=3422#comment-7041 It's amazing that the first "national" cemetery in Gettysburg didn't include Confederate graves, yet in the Confederate capital the graves of those defending said capital may not be honorably maintained. This shouldn't be about what the racial mix of the population is or what the majority imposes on the minority, it's about proper commemoration. After a tempestuous Wilder, at least Jones is beginning to come around. And speaking of radical fringe elements, I found this man http://users.erols.com/va-udc/statue-attack.html It’s amazing that the first “national” cemetery in Gettysburg didn’t include Confederate graves, yet in the Confederate capital the graves of those defending said capital may not be honorably maintained. This shouldn’t be about what the racial mix of the population is or what the majority imposes on the minority, it’s about proper commemoration.

After a tempestuous Wilder, at least Jones is beginning to come around. And speaking of radical fringe elements, I found this man http://users.erols.com/va-udc/statue-attack.html

]]> By: Robert Moore http://cwmemory.com/2009/04/13/should-the-scv-and-richmond-partner-to-improve-oakwood/#comment-7018 Robert Moore Tue, 14 Apr 2009 11:35:48 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=3422#comment-7018 Do we need to say anything about the fact that the First National on the Wayne County monument has only seven stars and, therefore, North Carolina is not actually represented? Do we need to say anything about the fact that the First National on the Wayne County monument has only seven stars and, therefore, North Carolina is not actually represented?

]]> By: Jeffry Burden http://cwmemory.com/2009/04/13/should-the-scv-and-richmond-partner-to-improve-oakwood/#comment-7011 Jeffry Burden Tue, 14 Apr 2009 02:07:23 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=3422#comment-7011 The Wayne County monument illustrates one of my pet peeves: a person or group willing to spend months or years of effort, and thousands of dollars, to erect a (not unattractive) monument, but apparently not willing to spend five minutes having someone with a decent command of English review the copy. "...state's rights..." "...soldiers that remain unknown..." That's not even counting the awkward prose. The sad thing is, all the mistakes and awkwardness are literally written in stone for future generations to scratch their heads at. (Yes, I know I ended that sentence with a preposition). Memo to the Golsboro Rifles: it's not that difficult, people. The Wayne County monument illustrates one of my pet peeves: a person or group willing to spend months or years of effort, and thousands of dollars, to erect a (not unattractive) monument, but apparently not willing to spend five minutes having someone with a decent command of English review the copy.

“…state’s rights…”

“…soldiers that remain unknown…”

That’s not even counting the awkward prose. The sad thing is, all the mistakes and awkwardness are literally written in stone for future generations to scratch their heads at. (Yes, I know I ended that sentence with a preposition).

Memo to the Golsboro Rifles: it’s not that difficult, people.

]]> By: Kevin Levin http://cwmemory.com/2009/04/13/should-the-scv-and-richmond-partner-to-improve-oakwood/#comment-7001 Kevin Levin Mon, 13 Apr 2009 21:57:11 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=3422#comment-7001 Richard, Thanks for sharing the link to the Wayne County Monument. It really helps to define their involvement in and role in improving Oakwood Cemetery - a public site. I have no problem whatsoever with the placement of new headstones, but the SCV must not be seen as having a monopoly on the commemoration of the dead. It seems to me that the placement of a new monument, such as the one you linked to, must be the result of a commission of some sort that reflects the interests of the community. Richard,

Thanks for sharing the link to the Wayne County Monument. It really helps to define their involvement in and role in improving Oakwood Cemetery – a public site. I have no problem whatsoever with the placement of new headstones, but the SCV must not be seen as having a monopoly on the commemoration of the dead. It seems to me that the placement of a new monument, such as the one you linked to, must be the result of a commission of some sort that reflects the interests of the community.

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