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	<title>Comments on: Women as Objects in Civil War Art</title>
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	<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/06/21/women-as-objects-in-civil-war-art/</link>
	<description>Reflections of a High School History Teacher &#38; Civil War Historian</description>
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		<title>By: Vicki</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/06/21/women-as-objects-in-civil-war-art/#comment-9691</link>
		<dc:creator>Vicki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 13:42:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=4012#comment-9691</guid>
		<description>It can indeed be difficult to dig out the voices of the poorer women of the South.  I took on that challenge with &quot;&#039;A Sacred Charge Upon Our Hands:  Assisting the Families of Confederate Soldiers in Texas, 1861-1865,&quot; in _Seventh Star of the Confederacy:  Texas in the Civil War_, edited by Kenneth Howell, which came out this spring.  I&#039;ve been through both the Governor&#039;s correspondence and the Adjutant General&#039;s here in Texas and found a number of letters and petitions, although not exactly in the same voice that McCurry has found in Georgia and North Carolina.  Only occasionally do they speak for themselves in newspapers, but sometimes editors speak for them as do letters to the newspapers from husbands at the front.  In Texas, county judges sometimes included descriptions of conditions with their tallies of families needing aid.  Ann Raney Coleman, in Lavaca, occasionally held a pistol on ration distributors and a miller to get what she and others needed.  &quot;Be assured that it was the women that protected themselves in this war and not the men.&quot;  In Woodville the women stripped out government corn depots.  They told the agent &quot;it was out of any man&#039;s power to prevent them.  They declared that they were starving &amp; would have it.&quot;  Another group followed and told him &quot;if I did not sell them corn that they would burst open the doors and take what they wanted &amp; that there was not enough men enough in the County to prevent them &amp; that if they were gentlemen they would not prevent them as no gentleman would prevent starving women &amp; children from helping themselves to government corn when they could not get it elsewhere.&quot;

Now THAT would make an interesting painting!

Vicki Betts</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It can indeed be difficult to dig out the voices of the poorer women of the South.  I took on that challenge with &#8220;&#8216;A Sacred Charge Upon Our Hands:  Assisting the Families of Confederate Soldiers in Texas, 1861-1865,&#8221; in _Seventh Star of the Confederacy:  Texas in the Civil War_, edited by Kenneth Howell, which came out this spring.  I&#8217;ve been through both the Governor&#8217;s correspondence and the Adjutant General&#8217;s here in Texas and found a number of letters and petitions, although not exactly in the same voice that McCurry has found in Georgia and North Carolina.  Only occasionally do they speak for themselves in newspapers, but sometimes editors speak for them as do letters to the newspapers from husbands at the front.  In Texas, county judges sometimes included descriptions of conditions with their tallies of families needing aid.  Ann Raney Coleman, in Lavaca, occasionally held a pistol on ration distributors and a miller to get what she and others needed.  &#8220;Be assured that it was the women that protected themselves in this war and not the men.&#8221;  In Woodville the women stripped out government corn depots.  They told the agent &#8220;it was out of any man&#8217;s power to prevent them.  They declared that they were starving &amp; would have it.&#8221;  Another group followed and told him &#8220;if I did not sell them corn that they would burst open the doors and take what they wanted &amp; that there was not enough men enough in the County to prevent them &amp; that if they were gentlemen they would not prevent them as no gentleman would prevent starving women &amp; children from helping themselves to government corn when they could not get it elsewhere.&#8221;</p>
<p>Now THAT would make an interesting painting!</p>
<p>Vicki Betts</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Levin</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/06/21/women-as-objects-in-civil-war-art/#comment-9689</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Levin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 09:41:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=4012#comment-9689</guid>
		<description>Mannie,

But other than I assume you like this print? :)  As for Kunstler&#039;s failure to properly capture gazing soldiers, at first I thought my eyes were playing tricks on me.  In fact, for a few moments I actually felt dizzy trying to figure out what was going on.

Toby,

&quot;...maybe I better stop right there&quot; also has a sexual connotation. If you are going to take the plunge there is no telling where it stops. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mannie,</p>
<p>But other than I assume you like this print? <img src='http://cwmemory.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />   As for Kunstler&#8217;s failure to properly capture gazing soldiers, at first I thought my eyes were playing tricks on me.  In fact, for a few moments I actually felt dizzy trying to figure out what was going on.</p>
<p>Toby,</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230;maybe I better stop right there&#8221; also has a sexual connotation. If you are going to take the plunge there is no telling where it stops. <img src='http://cwmemory.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: toby</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/06/21/women-as-objects-in-civil-war-art/#comment-9688</link>
		<dc:creator>toby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 07:57:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=4012#comment-9688</guid>
		<description>I read an essay some years ago about how swords, daggers, etc have phallic symbolism in classical art, while seashells, cups etc are vaginal symbols. A lady kissing a man&#039;s sword ?... well, maybe  I better stop right there ....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read an essay some years ago about how swords, daggers, etc have phallic symbolism in classical art, while seashells, cups etc are vaginal symbols. A lady kissing a man&#8217;s sword ?&#8230; well, maybe  I better stop right there &#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Mannie Gentile</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/06/21/women-as-objects-in-civil-war-art/#comment-9687</link>
		<dc:creator>Mannie Gentile</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 04:50:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=4012#comment-9687</guid>
		<description>Kevin,

Art of this sort makes me shudder.

If it were the work of a talented ninth-grader I&#039;d praise the ambitious scope of the work, a mythic setting with heroic figures, as well as a high school teacher&#039;s appreciation of this art student going &quot;across the curriculum&quot; to embrace an historical theme.

For this talented ninth grader I&#039;d then provide some directed critique especially regarding the flawed perspective (simple mechanics, really), as well as the disturbing illusion created by the group of soldiers on the viewer&#039;s left, who seem to &quot;float&quot; slightly above the surface of the canvas.  I&#039;d ask the student to trace vanishing points as well as perspective lines to discover that so few of the gazing eyes are actually finding their targets.  I&#039;d ask if this bright student has had any opportunities to see and sketch live horses which are quite unlike those lampwork glass figurines that appear in the painting.  I&#039;d pose a similar question, with great delicacy, regarding the students familiarity with actual women, as organic forms rather than spun-sugar pieces of confectionary.  I&#039;d also question the garish aquamarine of the Candy-Land like river complete with large clusters of rock candy in the foreground.  The near spastic brushwork of the foliage on the far left;  I&#039;d leave that discussion for another day.

That&#039;s the conversation I&#039;d have if this were merely the work of a promising ninth-grader.

Otherwise,  yikes!

Mannie</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin,</p>
<p>Art of this sort makes me shudder.</p>
<p>If it were the work of a talented ninth-grader I&#8217;d praise the ambitious scope of the work, a mythic setting with heroic figures, as well as a high school teacher&#8217;s appreciation of this art student going &#8220;across the curriculum&#8221; to embrace an historical theme.</p>
<p>For this talented ninth grader I&#8217;d then provide some directed critique especially regarding the flawed perspective (simple mechanics, really), as well as the disturbing illusion created by the group of soldiers on the viewer&#8217;s left, who seem to &#8220;float&#8221; slightly above the surface of the canvas.  I&#8217;d ask the student to trace vanishing points as well as perspective lines to discover that so few of the gazing eyes are actually finding their targets.  I&#8217;d ask if this bright student has had any opportunities to see and sketch live horses which are quite unlike those lampwork glass figurines that appear in the painting.  I&#8217;d pose a similar question, with great delicacy, regarding the students familiarity with actual women, as organic forms rather than spun-sugar pieces of confectionary.  I&#8217;d also question the garish aquamarine of the Candy-Land like river complete with large clusters of rock candy in the foreground.  The near spastic brushwork of the foliage on the far left;  I&#8217;d leave that discussion for another day.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s the conversation I&#8217;d have if this were merely the work of a promising ninth-grader.</p>
<p>Otherwise,  yikes!</p>
<p>Mannie</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Moore</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/06/21/women-as-objects-in-civil-war-art/#comment-9684</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Moore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 01:30:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=4012#comment-9684</guid>
		<description>Thanks Kevin. Oh, I agree entirely regarding the image of the woman stitching the flag. I often think that many who seek a connection through the art become distracted by the art. On one hand, there is great-great grandpa who is the common dirt farmer who owns no slaves and joins the Confederate army. Yet, the imagery of the flag-stitching woman is detached from this and reflects several levels above the common dirt farmer. It&#039;s a curious &quot;memory,&quot; as we both know. 

Yes, I need to pick up the book. I&#039;m in the process of catching-up on my readings. I&#039;m about to dive into Plain Folk in a Rich Man&#039;s War: Class and Dissent in Confederate Georgia (David Williams, Teresa Crisp Williams, and David Carlson). Ultimately, before the year is out, I&#039;d like to collect a number of books that focus on dissent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Kevin. Oh, I agree entirely regarding the image of the woman stitching the flag. I often think that many who seek a connection through the art become distracted by the art. On one hand, there is great-great grandpa who is the common dirt farmer who owns no slaves and joins the Confederate army. Yet, the imagery of the flag-stitching woman is detached from this and reflects several levels above the common dirt farmer. It&#8217;s a curious &#8220;memory,&#8221; as we both know. </p>
<p>Yes, I need to pick up the book. I&#8217;m in the process of catching-up on my readings. I&#8217;m about to dive into Plain Folk in a Rich Man&#8217;s War: Class and Dissent in Confederate Georgia (David Williams, Teresa Crisp Williams, and David Carlson). Ultimately, before the year is out, I&#8217;d like to collect a number of books that focus on dissent.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Levin</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/06/21/women-as-objects-in-civil-war-art/#comment-9683</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Levin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 01:22:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=4012#comment-9683</guid>
		<description>Hi Robert,

The problem with the image of the woman stitching the Confederate flag is that it is much too static.  Women may have stitched them, but as an emblematic image it overlooks the challenges that most women faced during the war and presents them as objects that work to satisfy our own need to remember the past in a certain way.  

You definitely need to read the article, though I am looking forward to the book, which is titled, _Confederate Crucible: The Political Transformation of the Civil War South_ and is to be published by Harvard.  It&#039;s definitely not an easy argument to make given that these women tended not to keep diaries or other records.  That said, what is available seems to have been written in response to the continued encroachments of the Confederate government.  Their words directly reflect their discontent and form part of the broader story of the steps they took to address these concerns.  Overall, it&#039;s a pretty good collection of essays if you decide to purchase it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Robert,</p>
<p>The problem with the image of the woman stitching the Confederate flag is that it is much too static.  Women may have stitched them, but as an emblematic image it overlooks the challenges that most women faced during the war and presents them as objects that work to satisfy our own need to remember the past in a certain way.  </p>
<p>You definitely need to read the article, though I am looking forward to the book, which is titled, _Confederate Crucible: The Political Transformation of the Civil War South_ and is to be published by Harvard.  It&#8217;s definitely not an easy argument to make given that these women tended not to keep diaries or other records.  That said, what is available seems to have been written in response to the continued encroachments of the Confederate government.  Their words directly reflect their discontent and form part of the broader story of the steps they took to address these concerns.  Overall, it&#8217;s a pretty good collection of essays if you decide to purchase it.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Moore</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/06/21/women-as-objects-in-civil-war-art/#comment-9682</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Moore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 01:10:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=4012#comment-9682</guid>
		<description>Kevin,

Looks like I need to read McCurry&#039;s essay. 

The image of the bread riot also brings to mind another that I saw this past year, showing a women scorning her husband (a Confederate soldier) for returning home, a deserter. I&#039;ve often seen it written where some Southern women (those who were secesh-leaning, of course) were referred to as worse than some Southern men (in regard to secession spirit). I&#039;ve also seen letters that back-up that thought. Of course, as opposed to the clouded understanding of some that the &quot;idyllic Southern woman&quot; sat in front of a window stitching a Confederate flag (and that said image was representative of the overall spirit of Southern women), Southern women had varying impact on the men and it most certainly wasn&#039;t always for the &quot;Cause.&quot; In fact, it appears that McCurry&#039;s piece urges us to look more carefully at the instances in which Southern women voiced their distrust of the &quot;Cause.&quot; This is the reality of the CW era society in the South. 

Also, noting the effort made by women to organize resistance to the Confederate war effort, I have seen where some Confederate soldiers also took measures and deserted to the home county (the government having &quot;failed&quot; them in reassuring the safety of the families at home) to hide in the hills and hollows to act whenever necessary... no matter the &quot;enemy.&quot; The &quot;enemy&quot; was not always the Union soldier, however, and was sometimes other Confederate soldiers. I know of an incident in Page County where a women was killed by a drunk N.C. Confederate. The woman killed was actually a distant cousin of mine.

Many realized that being in the Confederate army was not in the best interests of their wives and children at home, and being close to home made it easier to desert and tend to that which was more important. I think the book &quot;More Damning than Slaughter&quot; covers this rather well.

Robert @ Cenantua&#039;s Blog</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin,</p>
<p>Looks like I need to read McCurry&#8217;s essay. </p>
<p>The image of the bread riot also brings to mind another that I saw this past year, showing a women scorning her husband (a Confederate soldier) for returning home, a deserter. I&#8217;ve often seen it written where some Southern women (those who were secesh-leaning, of course) were referred to as worse than some Southern men (in regard to secession spirit). I&#8217;ve also seen letters that back-up that thought. Of course, as opposed to the clouded understanding of some that the &#8220;idyllic Southern woman&#8221; sat in front of a window stitching a Confederate flag (and that said image was representative of the overall spirit of Southern women), Southern women had varying impact on the men and it most certainly wasn&#8217;t always for the &#8220;Cause.&#8221; In fact, it appears that McCurry&#8217;s piece urges us to look more carefully at the instances in which Southern women voiced their distrust of the &#8220;Cause.&#8221; This is the reality of the CW era society in the South. </p>
<p>Also, noting the effort made by women to organize resistance to the Confederate war effort, I have seen where some Confederate soldiers also took measures and deserted to the home county (the government having &#8220;failed&#8221; them in reassuring the safety of the families at home) to hide in the hills and hollows to act whenever necessary&#8230; no matter the &#8220;enemy.&#8221; The &#8220;enemy&#8221; was not always the Union soldier, however, and was sometimes other Confederate soldiers. I know of an incident in Page County where a women was killed by a drunk N.C. Confederate. The woman killed was actually a distant cousin of mine.</p>
<p>Many realized that being in the Confederate army was not in the best interests of their wives and children at home, and being close to home made it easier to desert and tend to that which was more important. I think the book &#8220;More Damning than Slaughter&#8221; covers this rather well.</p>
<p>Robert @ Cenantua&#8217;s Blog</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Levin</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/06/21/women-as-objects-in-civil-war-art/#comment-9681</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Levin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2009 17:04:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=4012#comment-9681</guid>
		<description>Dan,

You may be right that we want our Civil War wrapped in mythology rather than history, but I suspect that the attraction to these prints extends way beyond &quot;The Lost Cause/Southern Heritage/neo-Confederate segment of American society.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan,</p>
<p>You may be right that we want our Civil War wrapped in mythology rather than history, but I suspect that the attraction to these prints extends way beyond &#8220;The Lost Cause/Southern Heritage/neo-Confederate segment of American society.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Wright</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/06/21/women-as-objects-in-civil-war-art/#comment-9680</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Wright</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2009 17:01:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=4012#comment-9680</guid>
		<description>I think Kunstler&#039;s work has a cartoon-like quality about it. But I also think he thoroughly understands his market. The Lost Cause/Southern Heritage/neo-Confederate segment of American society wants to remember the CW much as Kunstler depicts it - white males were top of the food chain and everyone else knew their place. They want mythology, not history.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Kunstler&#8217;s work has a cartoon-like quality about it. But I also think he thoroughly understands his market. The Lost Cause/Southern Heritage/neo-Confederate segment of American society wants to remember the CW much as Kunstler depicts it &#8211; white males were top of the food chain and everyone else knew their place. They want mythology, not history.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Levin</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/06/21/women-as-objects-in-civil-war-art/#comment-9678</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Levin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2009 16:41:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=4012#comment-9678</guid>
		<description>Timothy,

Thanks for taking the time to fill us in with some of the background.  I will have to take a look at Buck&#039;s diary.  I guess the incident with Lucy must be understood as part of Lee&#039;s penchant for flirting with the young ladies.  Now that&#039;s something I would like to see Kunstler take on as a subject.  :) I won&#039;t hold my breadth.  Here is a link to Buck&#039;s diary at Google Books.  I&#039;m not sure how much of it is available: http://books.google.com/books?id=gPWqqWR9cooC&amp;dq=%22shadows+on+my+heart%22&amp;printsec=frontcover&amp;source=bl&amp;ots=xezW1wwKR7&amp;sig=-CY6fD7LUIgAx-ToNPsGyUeN3yw&amp;hl=en&amp;ei=4LI_SqqrHsOxtwfPpOCgBw&amp;sa=X&amp;oi=book_result&amp;ct=result&amp;resnum=1

Your broader point is important since it points to a tendency to remove these civilian scenes (especially those involving women) entirely from any reminder of war.  We are left with snapshots of peaceful plantations and other idyllic scenes from our antebellum imagination.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Timothy,</p>
<p>Thanks for taking the time to fill us in with some of the background.  I will have to take a look at Buck&#8217;s diary.  I guess the incident with Lucy must be understood as part of Lee&#8217;s penchant for flirting with the young ladies.  Now that&#8217;s something I would like to see Kunstler take on as a subject.  <img src='http://cwmemory.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  I won&#8217;t hold my breadth.  Here is a link to Buck&#8217;s diary at Google Books.  I&#8217;m not sure how much of it is available: <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=gPWqqWR9cooC&#038;dq=%22shadows+on+my+heart%22&#038;printsec=frontcover&#038;source=bl&#038;ots=xezW1wwKR7&#038;sig=-CY6fD7LUIgAx-ToNPsGyUeN3yw&#038;hl=en&#038;ei=4LI_SqqrHsOxtwfPpOCgBw&#038;sa=X&#038;oi=book_result&#038;ct=result&#038;resnum=1" rel="nofollow">http://books.google.com/books?id=gPWqqWR9cooC&#038;dq=%22shadows+on+my+heart%22&#038;printsec=frontcover&#038;source=bl&#038;ots=xezW1wwKR7&#038;sig=-CY6fD7LUIgAx-ToNPsGyUeN3yw&#038;hl=en&#038;ei=4LI_SqqrHsOxtwfPpOCgBw&#038;sa=X&#038;oi=book_result&#038;ct=result&#038;resnum=1</a></p>
<p>Your broader point is important since it points to a tendency to remove these civilian scenes (especially those involving women) entirely from any reminder of war.  We are left with snapshots of peaceful plantations and other idyllic scenes from our antebellum imagination.</p>
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