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	<title>Comments on: A Statement About the State of Jones Dispute</title>
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	<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/07/30/a-statement-about-the-state-of-jones-dispute/</link>
	<description>Where History, Heritage, and Education Intersect</description>
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		<title>By: TF Smith</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/07/30/a-statement-about-the-state-of-jones-dispute/#comment-10271</link>
		<dc:creator>TF Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Aug 2009 18:52:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=4274#comment-10271</guid>
		<description>Marcus Rediker gave a talk on campus a couple of years ago where he shared some of the insights he has gleaned from his research into the lives of maritime laborers in the 16th and 17th century Atlantic world; very interesting and – at least to my eyes; it is not my area of specialization – very well-researched and written.

He also mentioned he has written a screenplay about pirates and pirating, and that he had tried to give it a more historical foundation than, say, Disney’s version – but he was also forthright in saying he did not see such an effort as scholarship.

Ms. Jenkins is not a historian or a scholar, and is, pretty obviously, looking for the big score in Hollywood; she was hired, after all, to write what amounts to the novelization of a yet-to-be-produced screenplay.

What seems really questionable to me in Dr. Stauffer’s involvement; whether he was brought aboard to give this effort a scholarly gloss or not, it appears he may be not have thought it through…his involvement seems more questionable than Jenkins’ in my eyes.

Caveats: I have yet to read either book (but am very interested now in doing so before the fall semester begins), but have to say Dr. Bynum’s POV (and Kevin&#039;s opinion of the situation) both seem legitimate; I also say this as someone with more than decade in daily journalism, some personal experience in academia, and with at least a passing aquaintance with the entertainment industry.

I think Faulkner’s observation about Hollywood and serious writers (academic or otherwise) still holds true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marcus Rediker gave a talk on campus a couple of years ago where he shared some of the insights he has gleaned from his research into the lives of maritime laborers in the 16th and 17th century Atlantic world; very interesting and – at least to my eyes; it is not my area of specialization – very well-researched and written.</p>
<p>He also mentioned he has written a screenplay about pirates and pirating, and that he had tried to give it a more historical foundation than, say, Disney’s version – but he was also forthright in saying he did not see such an effort as scholarship.</p>
<p>Ms. Jenkins is not a historian or a scholar, and is, pretty obviously, looking for the big score in Hollywood; she was hired, after all, to write what amounts to the novelization of a yet-to-be-produced screenplay.</p>
<p>What seems really questionable to me in Dr. Stauffer’s involvement; whether he was brought aboard to give this effort a scholarly gloss or not, it appears he may be not have thought it through…his involvement seems more questionable than Jenkins’ in my eyes.</p>
<p>Caveats: I have yet to read either book (but am very interested now in doing so before the fall semester begins), but have to say Dr. Bynum’s POV (and Kevin&#8217;s opinion of the situation) both seem legitimate; I also say this as someone with more than decade in daily journalism, some personal experience in academia, and with at least a passing aquaintance with the entertainment industry.</p>
<p>I think Faulkner’s observation about Hollywood and serious writers (academic or otherwise) still holds true.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Levin</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/07/30/a-statement-about-the-state-of-jones-dispute/#comment-10269</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Levin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Aug 2009 14:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=4274#comment-10269</guid>
		<description>Craig,

Thanks for clarifying.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Craig,</p>
<p>Thanks for clarifying.</p>
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		<title>By: Craig</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/07/30/a-statement-about-the-state-of-jones-dispute/#comment-10268</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Aug 2009 13:55:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=4274#comment-10268</guid>
		<description>I could argue that my use of &quot;would&quot; invokes a subjunctive, which probably isn&#039;t as well defined in English as it is in a few other languages.  Race, and the history of race relations in America, is a hot topic in this era, just as obscenity was in a previous era when the phrase &quot;banned in Boston&quot; was a means of turning works of sometimes dubious literary merit into surefire bestsellers. Banning Stauffer and Jenkins in Richmond would probably require at least some sort of minimal legal action.   A civil suit might be enough to warrant some kind of injunction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I could argue that my use of &#8220;would&#8221; invokes a subjunctive, which probably isn&#8217;t as well defined in English as it is in a few other languages.  Race, and the history of race relations in America, is a hot topic in this era, just as obscenity was in a previous era when the phrase &#8220;banned in Boston&#8221; was a means of turning works of sometimes dubious literary merit into surefire bestsellers. Banning Stauffer and Jenkins in Richmond would probably require at least some sort of minimal legal action.   A civil suit might be enough to warrant some kind of injunction.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Levin</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/07/30/a-statement-about-the-state-of-jones-dispute/#comment-10267</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Levin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Aug 2009 09:34:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=4274#comment-10267</guid>
		<description>Craig,

I started to watch it, but as soon as Jenkins started to babble on and on about how historians have ignored this story I checked out.  I&#039;m not surprised that Bynum&#039;s name wasn&#039;t mentioned since Stewart would have no interest in doing such a background check.  I don&#039;t even think he read the book, which would be no surprise.  I agree that writing for the general public is different than for fellow academics, but in both cases the authors are making claims about the past.  In both cases I believe it is the responsibility of those in positions of authority to speak up when such egregious errors are committed.  I to am pleased that more people have now been exposed to Bynum&#039;s book and I hope she sees an increase in sales.  

Finally, what do you mean by &quot;the book is banned in Richmond&quot;?  Did I miss something?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Craig,</p>
<p>I started to watch it, but as soon as Jenkins started to babble on and on about how historians have ignored this story I checked out.  I&#8217;m not surprised that Bynum&#8217;s name wasn&#8217;t mentioned since Stewart would have no interest in doing such a background check.  I don&#8217;t even think he read the book, which would be no surprise.  I agree that writing for the general public is different than for fellow academics, but in both cases the authors are making claims about the past.  In both cases I believe it is the responsibility of those in positions of authority to speak up when such egregious errors are committed.  I to am pleased that more people have now been exposed to Bynum&#8217;s book and I hope she sees an increase in sales.  </p>
<p>Finally, what do you mean by &#8220;the book is banned in Richmond&#8221;?  Did I miss something?</p>
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		<title>By: Craig</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/07/30/a-statement-about-the-state-of-jones-dispute/#comment-10265</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Aug 2009 05:40:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=4274#comment-10265</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know if you saw Sally Jenkins on The Daily Show with Jon Stewart, but if you&#039;d like to here&#039;s a link,  http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-july-23-2009/sally-jenkins .  I thought it was interesting that she was introduced as a journalist rather than a historian, that Bynum&#039;s name was never mentioned, nor was there any mention of an academic controversy. Stauffer is an historian who successfully collaborated with a journalist to sell a story to the public that would otherwise have been limited to academicians, a few history buffs and those people in the community with a genuine interest in local color. Writing for a mass audience is different than publishing scholarship. Your average reader can tolerate a scholarly tone for about five minutes. Bynum&#039;s work is finally getting the attention it deserves and the controversy could give her a chance to demonstrate she&#039;s as good at journalism as she is at history. The publisher would no doubt be delighted to hear that the book is banned in Richmond.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know if you saw Sally Jenkins on The Daily Show with Jon Stewart, but if you&#8217;d like to here&#8217;s a link,  <a href="http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-july-23-2009/sally-jenkins" rel="nofollow">http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-july-23-2009/sally-jenkins</a> .  I thought it was interesting that she was introduced as a journalist rather than a historian, that Bynum&#8217;s name was never mentioned, nor was there any mention of an academic controversy. Stauffer is an historian who successfully collaborated with a journalist to sell a story to the public that would otherwise have been limited to academicians, a few history buffs and those people in the community with a genuine interest in local color. Writing for a mass audience is different than publishing scholarship. Your average reader can tolerate a scholarly tone for about five minutes. Bynum&#8217;s work is finally getting the attention it deserves and the controversy could give her a chance to demonstrate she&#8217;s as good at journalism as she is at history. The publisher would no doubt be delighted to hear that the book is banned in Richmond.</p>
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		<title>By: Sally Jenkins and John Stauffer respond to my reviews of their book &#171; Renegade South</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/07/30/a-statement-about-the-state-of-jones-dispute/#comment-10263</link>
		<dc:creator>Sally Jenkins and John Stauffer respond to my reviews of their book &#171; Renegade South</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Aug 2009 01:20:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=4274#comment-10263</guid>
		<description>[...] July 13, 2009 by renegadesouth    UPDATE: PLEASE SEE KEVIN LEVIN&#8217;S &#8220;A STATEMENT ABOUT THE STATE OF JONES DISPUTE&#8221; ON CIVIL WAR MEMORY, http://cwmemory.com/2009/07/30/a-statement-about-the-state-of-jones-dispute/ [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] July 13, 2009 by renegadesouth    UPDATE: PLEASE SEE KEVIN LEVIN&#8217;S &#8220;A STATEMENT ABOUT THE STATE OF JONES DISPUTE&#8221; ON CIVIL WAR MEMORY, <a href="http://cwmemory.com/2009/07/30/a-statement-about-the-state-of-jones-dispute/" rel="nofollow">http://cwmemory.com/2009/07/30/a-statement-about-the-state-of-jones-dispute/</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Too good to be true? &#171; The Edge of the American West</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/07/30/a-statement-about-the-state-of-jones-dispute/#comment-10259</link>
		<dc:creator>Too good to be true? &#171; The Edge of the American West</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 19:50:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=4274#comment-10259</guid>
		<description>[...] and Sally Jenkins&#8217;s new history of the Free State of Jones. But it seems like the struggle over the book is pretty interesting, as it raises all kinds of questions about the intersection of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] and Sally Jenkins&#8217;s new history of the Free State of Jones. But it seems like the struggle over the book is pretty interesting, as it raises all kinds of questions about the intersection of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Levin</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/07/30/a-statement-about-the-state-of-jones-dispute/#comment-10255</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Levin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:13:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=4274#comment-10255</guid>
		<description>Ken,

Excellent points.  I do think we have to distinguish between Jenkins and Stauffer here.  As I pointed out in the post, Jenkins is clearly not capable of dealing with these challenges.  She is unfamiliar with the relevant historiography and seems not to understand what goes into an analytical discussion about the process of writing history.  Notice how many times she says something along the lines of, &quot;These facts are indisputable...&quot;  

I am now beginning to see that even Stauffer is out of his league in terms of the relevant historiography.  How else can we explain his resorting to personal jabs against Bynum.  It comes down to both not knowing what to say in response to Bynum and others because they haven&#039;t really thought through many of the issues that have been raised.  Still, he was trained to do research and engage in serious dialog with other scholars.  That is why I believe he is more culpable in this particular instance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ken,</p>
<p>Excellent points.  I do think we have to distinguish between Jenkins and Stauffer here.  As I pointed out in the post, Jenkins is clearly not capable of dealing with these challenges.  She is unfamiliar with the relevant historiography and seems not to understand what goes into an analytical discussion about the process of writing history.  Notice how many times she says something along the lines of, &#8220;These facts are indisputable&#8230;&#8221;  </p>
<p>I am now beginning to see that even Stauffer is out of his league in terms of the relevant historiography.  How else can we explain his resorting to personal jabs against Bynum.  It comes down to both not knowing what to say in response to Bynum and others because they haven&#8217;t really thought through many of the issues that have been raised.  Still, he was trained to do research and engage in serious dialog with other scholars.  That is why I believe he is more culpable in this particular instance.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Noe</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/07/30/a-statement-about-the-state-of-jones-dispute/#comment-10251</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Noe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 14:51:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=4274#comment-10251</guid>
		<description>Kevin:

Reading Stauffer and Jenkins&#039; response to Michael Ballard this morning, my first reaction frankly was annoyance.  Like Professor Bynum, Ballard is both an excellent scholar and a gracious person.  Then a rather amorphous thought I &#039;d been wrestling with finally gelled.  When Bynum and Ballard firmly but respectfully raise what they see as problems with the book,  Stauffer and Jenkins&#039; counterattack.  They paint Bynum and Ballard as bad scholars who  &quot;ignore evidence&quot; that strikes me anyway as supposition, heritage, or disputed memory.  They re-anchor their interpretations in sources others have questioned.  They garble or ignore gray areas in the antebellum and Confederate South, notably but not exclusively in regard to race and slavery.  They dismiss Bynum simply as a defender of &quot;turf,&quot; but in another response, Stauffer goes on to read Sean Wilentz&#039;s mind, asserting that this &quot;presentist&quot; historian is attacking another work because of a nefarious, agenda-driven, Hillary Clintonian political philosophy.   

Aren&#039;t these the same, sad, familiar tactics used in defense of &quot;black Confederates&quot; or the notion of Lincoln as a proto-Hitler?  

Ken</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin:</p>
<p>Reading Stauffer and Jenkins&#8217; response to Michael Ballard this morning, my first reaction frankly was annoyance.  Like Professor Bynum, Ballard is both an excellent scholar and a gracious person.  Then a rather amorphous thought I &#8216;d been wrestling with finally gelled.  When Bynum and Ballard firmly but respectfully raise what they see as problems with the book,  Stauffer and Jenkins&#8217; counterattack.  They paint Bynum and Ballard as bad scholars who  &#8220;ignore evidence&#8221; that strikes me anyway as supposition, heritage, or disputed memory.  They re-anchor their interpretations in sources others have questioned.  They garble or ignore gray areas in the antebellum and Confederate South, notably but not exclusively in regard to race and slavery.  They dismiss Bynum simply as a defender of &#8220;turf,&#8221; but in another response, Stauffer goes on to read Sean Wilentz&#8217;s mind, asserting that this &#8220;presentist&#8221; historian is attacking another work because of a nefarious, agenda-driven, Hillary Clintonian political philosophy.   </p>
<p>Aren&#8217;t these the same, sad, familiar tactics used in defense of &#8220;black Confederates&#8221; or the notion of Lincoln as a proto-Hitler?  </p>
<p>Ken</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Odell</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/07/30/a-statement-about-the-state-of-jones-dispute/#comment-10250</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Odell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 14:16:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=4274#comment-10250</guid>
		<description>Kevin,

Great post, insightful, fair, authoritative. If only you had been around in 1861, we could have avoided the whole damned mess.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin,</p>
<p>Great post, insightful, fair, authoritative. If only you had been around in 1861, we could have avoided the whole damned mess.</p>
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		<title>By: Jimmy Price</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/07/30/a-statement-about-the-state-of-jones-dispute/#comment-10249</link>
		<dc:creator>Jimmy Price</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 13:16:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=4274#comment-10249</guid>
		<description>Kevin,

Great post.  Personal swipes should have no place in legitimate scholarly debate -- one would think that an author (or authors) sincerely interested in advancing the field would welcome criticism and not resort to debasing another&#039;s work and then &quot;skedaddling&quot;, to use a period term. I can certainly understand why someone would feel passionate about their work -- after all, when you spend vast chunks of your life researching and writing a book it sort of becomes your &quot;baby&quot;. But when you sign your name to a work, you should be fully confident that you have done the best job of researching your topic and offering sufficient analysis based on your research. Criticism sharpens historians and hopefully makes them better at what they do. To think that this dispute has led to  newspaper articles is...depressing. My wife will be ecstatic to learn that there will be at least ONE new Civil War book that I won&#039;t be buying...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin,</p>
<p>Great post.  Personal swipes should have no place in legitimate scholarly debate &#8212; one would think that an author (or authors) sincerely interested in advancing the field would welcome criticism and not resort to debasing another&#8217;s work and then &#8220;skedaddling&#8221;, to use a period term. I can certainly understand why someone would feel passionate about their work &#8212; after all, when you spend vast chunks of your life researching and writing a book it sort of becomes your &#8220;baby&#8221;. But when you sign your name to a work, you should be fully confident that you have done the best job of researching your topic and offering sufficient analysis based on your research. Criticism sharpens historians and hopefully makes them better at what they do. To think that this dispute has led to  newspaper articles is&#8230;depressing. My wife will be ecstatic to learn that there will be at least ONE new Civil War book that I won&#8217;t be buying&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Levin</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/07/30/a-statement-about-the-state-of-jones-dispute/#comment-10247</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Levin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 09:55:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=4274#comment-10247</guid>
		<description>Daniel,

You should read it and decide for yourself.  The problem is not simply the concerns raised by Bynum, but that Jenkins and Stauffer have resisted responding directly to them.  Since they are legitimate concerns I have to assume that the authors are incapable of dealing with them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Daniel,</p>
<p>You should read it and decide for yourself.  The problem is not simply the concerns raised by Bynum, but that Jenkins and Stauffer have resisted responding directly to them.  Since they are legitimate concerns I have to assume that the authors are incapable of dealing with them.</p>
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