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	<title>Comments on: Gotcha History</title>
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	<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/10/19/gotcha-history/</link>
	<description>Where History, Heritage, and Education Intersect</description>
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		<title>By: Kevin Levin</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/10/19/gotcha-history/#comment-11765</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Levin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 09:24:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=5098#comment-11765</guid>
		<description>Richard will never be held accountable for his views.  Either you misunderstood what he wrote or he turns the issue around and goes after something else.  Since he doesn&#039;t read much of anything by the people he regularly criticizes all he has left is to go after their political views.  For Williams, the study of history is a political act and can only be evaluated along ideological lines.  There is never any consideration of an actual work of history.  Apparently, he doesn&#039;t have any clue as to how to go about that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard will never be held accountable for his views.  Either you misunderstood what he wrote or he turns the issue around and goes after something else.  Since he doesn&#39;t read much of anything by the people he regularly criticizes all he has left is to go after their political views.  For Williams, the study of history is a political act and can only be evaluated along ideological lines.  There is never any consideration of an actual work of history.  Apparently, he doesn&#39;t have any clue as to how to go about that.</p>
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		<title>By: Brooks D. Simpson</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/10/19/gotcha-history/#comment-11762</link>
		<dc:creator>Brooks D. Simpson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 07:35:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=5098#comment-11762</guid>
		<description>Oh, Richard Williams has his issues, that&#039;s for sure.   When I suggested that his failure to define my political agenda (despite making all sorts of claims) was an act of cowardice, he proved that he was indeed the coward I thought he was by refusing to post the reply.  So much for old Virginia manhood.  :)  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Richard Williams simply won&#039;t be held accountable for what he says, because he fails to substantiate his claims.  I&#039;ve already documented that he&#039;s a hypocrite and a fraud, and he nicely documented that he&#039;s also a coward.  That leaves me with the sense that he&#039;s had his fifteen minutes, and it would be best all around not to give him the attention he so desperately craves.  Just a suggestion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, Richard Williams has his issues, that&#39;s for sure.   When I suggested that his failure to define my political agenda (despite making all sorts of claims) was an act of cowardice, he proved that he was indeed the coward I thought he was by refusing to post the reply.  So much for old Virginia manhood.  <img src='http://cwmemory.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />   </p>
<p>Richard Williams simply won&#39;t be held accountable for what he says, because he fails to substantiate his claims.  I&#39;ve already documented that he&#39;s a hypocrite and a fraud, and he nicely documented that he&#39;s also a coward.  That leaves me with the sense that he&#39;s had his fifteen minutes, and it would be best all around not to give him the attention he so desperately craves.  Just a suggestion.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Levin</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/10/19/gotcha-history/#comment-11737</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Levin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 16:14:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=5098#comment-11737</guid>
		<description>I probably will not read this book for a number of reasons, but thanks for the offer.  By the way, you should upload an avatar for your profile page.  Hope school is going well. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I probably will not read this book for a number of reasons, but thanks for the offer.  By the way, you should upload an avatar for your profile page.  Hope school is going well. <img src='http://cwmemory.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: crystalmarshall</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/10/19/gotcha-history/#comment-11734</link>
		<dc:creator>crystalmarshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 15:13:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=5098#comment-11734</guid>
		<description>This post came at the right time--just a couple of days ago I checked out this book from my college library. It was on the &quot;Featured Books&quot; shelf and it just looked to tempting to pass up :0) Once I finish reading it, Kevin, I can give you a little synopsis of it if you would like that--I know that with your full schedule and even fuller library, you may not get a chance to read this book for a while :0)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This post came at the right time&#8211;just a couple of days ago I checked out this book from my college library. It was on the &#8220;Featured Books&#8221; shelf and it just looked to tempting to pass up :0) Once I finish reading it, Kevin, I can give you a little synopsis of it if you would like that&#8211;I know that with your full schedule and even fuller library, you may not get a chance to read this book for a while :0)</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Levin</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/10/19/gotcha-history/#comment-11727</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Levin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 09:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=5098#comment-11727</guid>
		<description>Not a good sign.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not a good sign.</p>
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		<title>By: Craig</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/10/19/gotcha-history/#comment-11726</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 08:17:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=5098#comment-11726</guid>
		<description>I discovered a Civil War ancestor in the past five years who I would have known nothing about except for the internet. The story of my great great grandfather is that he joined a Union regiment late in the war and didn&#039;t come back. My great great grandmother, on the other hand, had three children who had lost their father. She declared for a widow&#039;s pension with dependents. It wasn&#039;t honored until a year and a half after her husband&#039;s death when she married her next door neighbor. I&#039;ve chased down the details of the regiments in which her younger brother served, returning wounded and as a hero with a very substantial pension, and in which her husband and her sister&#039;s husband served. They were forty years old and did as they were told until they were too sick to continue. Her sister&#039;s husband survived the war and her own husband didn&#039;t. The records I&#039;ve obtained have been for the soldiers, but the person I&#039;ve gotten to know from the records has been my great great grandmother. Hers is the life that was shaped by the war and it&#039;s her influence I can see in the lives of my great grandfather, his step-father, his brother, his sister, his half-brother, his step-brother,  his wife, his children, his grandchildren and his great grandchildren. The war created a situation. She responded to it. My whole sense of personal identity has been transformed by recognizing how and why she responded as she did.  It was her life that was the center of the drama that the war produced.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I discovered a Civil War ancestor in the past five years who I would have known nothing about except for the internet. The story of my great great grandfather is that he joined a Union regiment late in the war and didn&#39;t come back. My great great grandmother, on the other hand, had three children who had lost their father. She declared for a widow&#39;s pension with dependents. It wasn&#39;t honored until a year and a half after her husband&#39;s death when she married her next door neighbor. I&#39;ve chased down the details of the regiments in which her younger brother served, returning wounded and as a hero with a very substantial pension, and in which her husband and her sister&#39;s husband served. They were forty years old and did as they were told until they were too sick to continue. Her sister&#39;s husband survived the war and her own husband didn&#39;t. The records I&#39;ve obtained have been for the soldiers, but the person I&#39;ve gotten to know from the records has been my great great grandmother. Hers is the life that was shaped by the war and it&#39;s her influence I can see in the lives of my great grandfather, his step-father, his brother, his sister, his half-brother, his step-brother,  his wife, his children, his grandchildren and his great grandchildren. The war created a situation. She responded to it. My whole sense of personal identity has been transformed by recognizing how and why she responded as she did.  It was her life that was the center of the drama that the war produced.</p>
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		<title>By: Brooks D. Simpson</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/10/19/gotcha-history/#comment-11725</link>
		<dc:creator>Brooks D. Simpson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 02:19:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=5098#comment-11725</guid>
		<description>Hi, Bob.  I think you&#039;ve been more direct in your comments than I initially chose to be.  Berkin simply hasn&#039;t done the work she needs to do to offer a credible portrayal of Julia Dent Grant.  There are too many factual slips, too many statements that betray a basic lack of knowledge.  As you well know, family matters at White Haven were very complex, and I just don&#039;t get that in this reading.  Several Grant biographers have dealt with critical issues concerning the Grants, and Berkin&#039;s ignorant of that work, as her bibliography and notes reveal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Bob.  I think you&#39;ve been more direct in your comments than I initially chose to be.  Berkin simply hasn&#39;t done the work she needs to do to offer a credible portrayal of Julia Dent Grant.  There are too many factual slips, too many statements that betray a basic lack of knowledge.  As you well know, family matters at White Haven were very complex, and I just don&#39;t get that in this reading.  Several Grant biographers have dealt with critical issues concerning the Grants, and Berkin&#39;s ignorant of that work, as her bibliography and notes reveal.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob_Pollock</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/10/19/gotcha-history/#comment-11724</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob_Pollock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 01:22:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=5098#comment-11724</guid>
		<description>Kevin and Brooks,&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;First, I think you are referring to &quot;Intimate Strategies of the Civil War: Military Commanders and Their Wives.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Second, Kevin, I understand the point of your post, and I think you are right, but specifically there has been little written about Julia Grant. There is one biography that I am aware of, published in 1959, &quot;The General&#039;s Wife,&quot; which sort of reads like a novel and is of questionable scholarly value. I must confess I had never heard of Carol Berkin, but when I first heard of this book I immediately pre-ordered it.  I have not read the sections on Angelina or Varina, but I have read the section on Julia and I have to say I was a bit disappointed. I am now re-reading it and marking the places I think she is in error or just is misleading in her descriptions. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;A couple examples:  In the opening paragraph, she describes White Haven as &quot;an elegant showcase&quot;  The paragraph leads a reader to envision a Southern plantation style mansion. (Later she calls it a mansion.) Anyone expecting to see a mansion at White Haven, I think would be surprised to find a fairly simple two story farm house. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;She writes: &quot;In building White Haven, the Dents had successfully transplanted plantation life to the northern-most outpost of Dixie.&quot; Colonel Dent did not build White Haven, he purchased it. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;She states that &quot;the family owned more than a dozen slaves.&quot; The 1850 census shows Colonel Dent owned thirty slaves, though that number fluctuated.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;She states that Frederick Dent was Julia&#039;s &quot;oldest brother&quot; and that he was stationed at Jefferson Barracks.  There were two Dent sons older than Frederick who was not stationed at Jefferson Barracks.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;These kinds of errors can be overlooked I suppose, but I&#039;m also troubled by her overall interpretation of Julia. Not that she has Julia entirely wrong, but she seems to indict her for not living up to the more activist Angelina or the more rebellious Varina. She states: &quot;[Julia] never shared  Angelina Grimke&#039;s insight into the tragedy of bondage or Grimke&#039;s sensitivities to its cruelties.&quot; Well, how many southern women were like Grimke? She was rare. In addition, I would question whether Julia&#039;s experience with slavery at White Haven, which was essentially a family farm not a large scale plantation, was the same as Grimke&#039;s. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;There are end-notes, and it seems as though Berkin relies very much on Julia&#039;s own Memoirs, without providing additional analysis or context. She also cites &quot;The General&#039;s Wife,&quot;  Jean Edward Smith&#039;s biography of Grant, Grant letters, and little else. She seems to have pretty much taken Julia&#039;s writings at face value. I have stated in past comments here that Julia did not actually own any slaves, because her father never legally transferred ownership to her. Berkin misses this completely, along with other points regarding the Dents, the Grants, and slavery in Missouri. Also, I don&#039;t think Berkin ever visited White Haven or ever spoke with our site historian, which would have been beneficial to her.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Furthermore, Berkin&#039;s statements on the situation in Missouri in early 1861 are extemely simplistic and misleading. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I could go on, but this is already a long post. There has been a lot of praise here for Berkin&#039;s scholarly abilities and I trust that she has done good work, but unfortunately, I think she falls short with this one.&lt;br&gt;We could use a good biography of Julia Grant at White Haven. Maybe having three bios together like Berkin has done with this book is too restricting.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;I am anxiously waiting for our site historian to read it, so we can discuss it more fully.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Brooks, you said let&#039;s focus on the book. I would very much like to hear your take on Berkin&#039;s portrayal of Julia Grant.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Oh yeah, she has Ft. Donelson spelled Donalson. Where are the editors?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin and Brooks,</p>
<p>First, I think you are referring to &#8220;Intimate Strategies of the Civil War: Military Commanders and Their Wives.&#8221;</p>
<p>Second, Kevin, I understand the point of your post, and I think you are right, but specifically there has been little written about Julia Grant. There is one biography that I am aware of, published in 1959, &#8220;The General&#39;s Wife,&#8221; which sort of reads like a novel and is of questionable scholarly value. I must confess I had never heard of Carol Berkin, but when I first heard of this book I immediately pre-ordered it.  I have not read the sections on Angelina or Varina, but I have read the section on Julia and I have to say I was a bit disappointed. I am now re-reading it and marking the places I think she is in error or just is misleading in her descriptions. </p>
<p>A couple examples:  In the opening paragraph, she describes White Haven as &#8220;an elegant showcase&#8221;  The paragraph leads a reader to envision a Southern plantation style mansion. (Later she calls it a mansion.) Anyone expecting to see a mansion at White Haven, I think would be surprised to find a fairly simple two story farm house. </p>
<p>She writes: &#8220;In building White Haven, the Dents had successfully transplanted plantation life to the northern-most outpost of Dixie.&#8221; Colonel Dent did not build White Haven, he purchased it. </p>
<p>She states that &#8220;the family owned more than a dozen slaves.&#8221; The 1850 census shows Colonel Dent owned thirty slaves, though that number fluctuated.</p>
<p>She states that Frederick Dent was Julia&#39;s &#8220;oldest brother&#8221; and that he was stationed at Jefferson Barracks.  There were two Dent sons older than Frederick who was not stationed at Jefferson Barracks.</p>
<p>These kinds of errors can be overlooked I suppose, but I&#39;m also troubled by her overall interpretation of Julia. Not that she has Julia entirely wrong, but she seems to indict her for not living up to the more activist Angelina or the more rebellious Varina. She states: &#8220;[Julia] never shared  Angelina Grimke&#39;s insight into the tragedy of bondage or Grimke&#39;s sensitivities to its cruelties.&#8221; Well, how many southern women were like Grimke? She was rare. In addition, I would question whether Julia&#39;s experience with slavery at White Haven, which was essentially a family farm not a large scale plantation, was the same as Grimke&#39;s. </p>
<p>There are end-notes, and it seems as though Berkin relies very much on Julia&#39;s own Memoirs, without providing additional analysis or context. She also cites &#8220;The General&#39;s Wife,&#8221;  Jean Edward Smith&#39;s biography of Grant, Grant letters, and little else. She seems to have pretty much taken Julia&#39;s writings at face value. I have stated in past comments here that Julia did not actually own any slaves, because her father never legally transferred ownership to her. Berkin misses this completely, along with other points regarding the Dents, the Grants, and slavery in Missouri. Also, I don&#39;t think Berkin ever visited White Haven or ever spoke with our site historian, which would have been beneficial to her.</p>
<p>Furthermore, Berkin&#39;s statements on the situation in Missouri in early 1861 are extemely simplistic and misleading. </p>
<p>I could go on, but this is already a long post. There has been a lot of praise here for Berkin&#39;s scholarly abilities and I trust that she has done good work, but unfortunately, I think she falls short with this one.<br />We could use a good biography of Julia Grant at White Haven. Maybe having three bios together like Berkin has done with this book is too restricting.</p>
<p>I am anxiously waiting for our site historian to read it, so we can discuss it more fully.  </p>
<p>Brooks, you said let&#39;s focus on the book. I would very much like to hear your take on Berkin&#39;s portrayal of Julia Grant.  </p>
<p>Oh yeah, she has Ft. Donelson spelled Donalson. Where are the editors?</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Levin</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/10/19/gotcha-history/#comment-11721</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Levin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 00:13:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=5098#comment-11721</guid>
		<description>Yes, of course, there is no comparison whatsoever.  At times I can&#039;t resist, but I find it hilarious that Williams once again fails to take responsibility for his own thoughts.  Somehow he manages to turn it back to being attacked by elitist/liberal/academics.  What a fool.  For someone who has never stepped foot on a college campus as student (as far as I can tell) he sure feels comfortable offering commentary about the problems therein.  He suffers from the same problem when it comes to scholarly studies of the Civil War since there is no evidence that Williams reads much of anything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, of course, there is no comparison whatsoever.  At times I can&#39;t resist, but I find it hilarious that Williams once again fails to take responsibility for his own thoughts.  Somehow he manages to turn it back to being attacked by elitist/liberal/academics.  What a fool.  For someone who has never stepped foot on a college campus as student (as far as I can tell) he sure feels comfortable offering commentary about the problems therein.  He suffers from the same problem when it comes to scholarly studies of the Civil War since there is no evidence that Williams reads much of anything.</p>
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		<title>By: Brooks D. Simpson</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/10/19/gotcha-history/#comment-11722</link>
		<dc:creator>Brooks D. Simpson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 00:11:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=5098#comment-11722</guid>
		<description>Look, I&#039;d dismiss the HNN piece for what it is.  The book is the true test.  Berkin is doing something about wives, and in doing so, she&#039;d been better advised to do a little more reading about the husbands as well.  There&#039;s much more to the story of Julia and Ulysses Grant than she presents, so I come away underwhelmed from that treatment, even if in spots she&#039;s put her knowledge of women&#039;s history to good use.  I&#039;ll leave it at that.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Yes, I&#039;m aware of all those books, and heck, I&#039;d point out Peg Lamphier&#039;s book about the William Sprague-Kate Chase marriage as one deeply informed by knowledge of the period and the scholarship about American women.  That book eluded Berkin&#039;s attention.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Look, I&#39;d dismiss the HNN piece for what it is.  The book is the true test.  Berkin is doing something about wives, and in doing so, she&#39;d been better advised to do a little more reading about the husbands as well.  There&#39;s much more to the story of Julia and Ulysses Grant than she presents, so I come away underwhelmed from that treatment, even if in spots she&#39;s put her knowledge of women&#39;s history to good use.  I&#39;ll leave it at that.</p>
<p>Yes, I&#39;m aware of all those books, and heck, I&#39;d point out Peg Lamphier&#39;s book about the William Sprague-Kate Chase marriage as one deeply informed by knowledge of the period and the scholarship about American women.  That book eluded Berkin&#39;s attention.</p>
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		<title>By: Brooks D. Simpson</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/10/19/gotcha-history/#comment-11719</link>
		<dc:creator>Brooks D. Simpson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 23:38:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=5098#comment-11719</guid>
		<description>You would expect anything different from Richard Williams?  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I think it unfortunate to pair Berkin with Williams.  I also think it unfortunate to give Williams much attention, although there are times I can see why some people do it.  I confess that he&#039;s easy to ridicule, and easy to corner.  Too easy, especially when he does much of the work for you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You would expect anything different from Richard Williams?  </p>
<p>I think it unfortunate to pair Berkin with Williams.  I also think it unfortunate to give Williams much attention, although there are times I can see why some people do it.  I confess that he&#39;s easy to ridicule, and easy to corner.  Too easy, especially when he does much of the work for you.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Levin</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/10/19/gotcha-history/#comment-11720</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Levin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 23:35:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=5098#comment-11720</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve seen the Berkin book on the bookstore shelves, but have not had a chance to go through it.  I thought Cashin&#039;s biography was first rate and the essays in _Intimate Matters_ are well worth looking at.  But as you well know that is just the tip of the iceberg.  How about Elizabeth Varon&#039;s bio of Elizabeth Van Lew, Matt Gallman&#039;s study on Anna Dickinson, Catherine Clinton on Fanny Kemble, Kate Larson on Harriet Tubman, etc.  Just about every aspect of women&#039;s history related to the Civil War has been studied.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#39;ve seen the Berkin book on the bookstore shelves, but have not had a chance to go through it.  I thought Cashin&#39;s biography was first rate and the essays in _Intimate Matters_ are well worth looking at.  But as you well know that is just the tip of the iceberg.  How about Elizabeth Varon&#39;s bio of Elizabeth Van Lew, Matt Gallman&#39;s study on Anna Dickinson, Catherine Clinton on Fanny Kemble, Kate Larson on Harriet Tubman, etc.  Just about every aspect of women&#39;s history related to the Civil War has been studied.</p>
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