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	<title>Comments on: Jim Limber Kidnapped and Brought to Beauvoir</title>
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	<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/10/30/jim-limber-kidnapped-and-brought-to-beauvoir/</link>
	<description>Where History, Heritage, and Education Intersect</description>
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		<title>By: Kevin Levin</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/10/30/jim-limber-kidnapped-and-brought-to-beauvoir/#comment-29995</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Levin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Sep 2011 15:14:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=5307#comment-29995</guid>
		<description>Hey Simpson, watch what you say about my Josephine.  That is the best kind of devotion when you take the trouble to comment on a post deep in the archives.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Simpson, watch what you say about my Josephine.  That is the best kind of devotion when you take the trouble to comment on a post deep in the archives.</p>
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		<title>By: Brooks Simpson</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/10/30/jim-limber-kidnapped-and-brought-to-beauvoir/#comment-29994</link>
		<dc:creator>Brooks Simpson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Sep 2011 15:10:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=5307#comment-29994</guid>
		<description>For Josephine to comment on a post nearly two years old ... that&#039;s some crazy kind of &quot;devotion.&quot;  Some of us would use a different term to characterize that obsession.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For Josephine to comment on a post nearly two years old &#8230; that&#8217;s some crazy kind of &#8220;devotion.&#8221;  Some of us would use a different term to characterize that obsession.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Levin</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/10/30/jim-limber-kidnapped-and-brought-to-beauvoir/#comment-29988</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Levin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Sep 2011 14:08:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=5307#comment-29988</guid>
		<description>Josephine and CC are my most devoted fans or perhaps cheerleaders. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Josephine and CC are my most devoted fans or perhaps cheerleaders. <img src='http://cwmemory.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Andy Hall</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/10/30/jim-limber-kidnapped-and-brought-to-beauvoir/#comment-29987</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Hall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Sep 2011 14:05:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=5307#comment-29987</guid>
		<description>Josephine clearly has a crush on you, and I&#039;m jealous. 

She hardly ever stops by my place any more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Josephine clearly has a crush on you, and I&#8217;m jealous. </p>
<p>She hardly ever stops by my place any more.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Levin</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/10/30/jim-limber-kidnapped-and-brought-to-beauvoir/#comment-29986</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Levin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Sep 2011 13:41:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=5307#comment-29986</guid>
		<description>Hi Josephine,

Nice to hear from you.  You said: &quot;nobody cares about you anymore.&quot;  I would argue that the number of comments I regularly receive suggests otherwise, including your own. :-)  Have a wonderful weekend.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Josephine,</p>
<p>Nice to hear from you.  You said: &#8220;nobody cares about you anymore.&#8221;  I would argue that the number of comments I regularly receive suggests otherwise, including your own. <img src='http://cwmemory.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />   Have a wonderful weekend.</p>
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		<title>By: JosephineSouthern</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/10/30/jim-limber-kidnapped-and-brought-to-beauvoir/#comment-29985</link>
		<dc:creator>JosephineSouthern</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Sep 2011 13:33:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=5307#comment-29985</guid>
		<description>spin away you fool and hate monger!  nobody cares about you anymore - you are toast.  anytime anyone tries to show the love and affection between 
the Southern black and white people you spin your hatred.  We in the South know better
because I lived it.

you accuse us of making up Limber story yet you spin your interpretation as though it is fact.
you make me sick to my stomach.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>spin away you fool and hate monger!  nobody cares about you anymore &#8211; you are toast.  anytime anyone tries to show the love and affection between<br />
the Southern black and white people you spin your hatred.  We in the South know better<br />
because I lived it.</p>
<p>you accuse us of making up Limber story yet you spin your interpretation as though it is fact.<br />
you make me sick to my stomach.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Levin</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/10/30/jim-limber-kidnapped-and-brought-to-beauvoir/#comment-22845</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Levin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Dec 2010 21:21:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=5307#comment-22845</guid>
		<description>How the hell do you remember individual comments that were left on old posts?  That&#039;s amazing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How the hell do you remember individual comments that were left on old posts?  That&#8217;s amazing.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy Hall</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/10/30/jim-limber-kidnapped-and-brought-to-beauvoir/#comment-22844</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Hall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Dec 2010 21:12:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=5307#comment-22844</guid>
		<description>David, we can speculate a great deal about what sort of relationship Jim Limber had with the Davises, particularly Jefferson Davis. There&#039;s plenty of room for it, because the historical record is mostly silent on that subject.

But given the context of the times, it seems exceedingly unlikely that either of the Davises viewed Jim Limber in the way the SCV is &lt;i&gt;explicitly&lt;/i&gt; claiming (through the statue) that he did -- as an adopted son, co-equal with his own child. It was common enough for well-off Southern families, both in antebellum times and much later, to have black children as playmates for their own kids; though the black children in question were most often the children of slaves or servants, &lt;a href=&quot;http://cwmemory.com/2010/04/25/appealing-to-slavery-and-race-when-it-is-convenient/#comment-20714&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;that was not always the case&lt;/a&gt;. The point is not that the Davises didn&#039;t &quot;care&quot; for Jim Limber, or feel kindly and protective toward him; the point is that there&#039;s no substantive evidence that he was thought of as a member of the immediate Davis family, as opposed to the larger household that encompassed other relatives and personal servants and slaves.

As Kevin often reminds us, monuments and memorials often tell us more about the beliefs and perceptions of the people who build them than about the historic events they ostensibly commemorate. Recall that this statue was commissioned by the SCV explicitly to counter &lt;a href=&quot;http://riverdistrictnews.com/2009/03/20/new-stamp-to-feature-the-lincoln-statue-at-tredegar-iron-works/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this one at Richmond, which the Southron Heritage folks found offensive. There response, predictably, was to drop a hundred grand on a statue of &lt;i&gt;their&lt;/i&gt; president, with &lt;i&gt;two&lt;/i&gt; kids, and one of &#039;em&#039;s &lt;i&gt;black&lt;/i&gt;! Take that, you politically-correct yankee libruls!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, we can speculate a great deal about what sort of relationship Jim Limber had with the Davises, particularly Jefferson Davis. There&#8217;s plenty of room for it, because the historical record is mostly silent on that subject.</p>
<p>But given the context of the times, it seems exceedingly unlikely that either of the Davises viewed Jim Limber in the way the SCV is <i>explicitly</i> claiming (through the statue) that he did &#8212; as an adopted son, co-equal with his own child. It was common enough for well-off Southern families, both in antebellum times and much later, to have black children as playmates for their own kids; though the black children in question were most often the children of slaves or servants, <a href="http://cwmemory.com/2010/04/25/appealing-to-slavery-and-race-when-it-is-convenient/#comment-20714" rel="nofollow">that was not always the case</a>. The point is not that the Davises didn&#8217;t &#8220;care&#8221; for Jim Limber, or feel kindly and protective toward him; the point is that there&#8217;s no substantive evidence that he was thought of as a member of the immediate Davis family, as opposed to the larger household that encompassed other relatives and personal servants and slaves.</p>
<p>As Kevin often reminds us, monuments and memorials often tell us more about the beliefs and perceptions of the people who build them than about the historic events they ostensibly commemorate. Recall that this statue was commissioned by the SCV explicitly to counter <a href="http://riverdistrictnews.com/2009/03/20/new-stamp-to-feature-the-lincoln-statue-at-tredegar-iron-works/" rel="nofollow">this one at Richmond, which the Southron Heritage folks found offensive. There response, predictably, was to drop a hundred grand on a statue of <i>their</i> president, with <i>two</i> kids, and one of &#8216;em&#8217;s <i>black</i>! Take that, you politically-correct yankee libruls!</a></p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Levin</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/10/30/jim-limber-kidnapped-and-brought-to-beauvoir/#comment-22830</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Levin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Dec 2010 19:57:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=5307#comment-22830</guid>
		<description>Thanks for taking the time to write.  Anything is possible, but the problem is that we have almost no evidence as to Limber&#039;s status while with the Davis family.  Based on what we do know it would be more accurate for Limber to be shown with Varina Davis since she was the one who brought him in.  However, that raises the obvious question which is why the SCV wanted Limber shown with Davis to begin with.  The intention behind this monument is about much more than simply remembering a specific relationship.  I&#039;ve addressed this in a number of posts on the Davis-Limber-SCV connection.  Thanks again for the comment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for taking the time to write.  Anything is possible, but the problem is that we have almost no evidence as to Limber&#8217;s status while with the Davis family.  Based on what we do know it would be more accurate for Limber to be shown with Varina Davis since she was the one who brought him in.  However, that raises the obvious question which is why the SCV wanted Limber shown with Davis to begin with.  The intention behind this monument is about much more than simply remembering a specific relationship.  I&#8217;ve addressed this in a number of posts on the Davis-Limber-SCV connection.  Thanks again for the comment.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/10/30/jim-limber-kidnapped-and-brought-to-beauvoir/#comment-22828</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Dec 2010 19:49:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=5307#comment-22828</guid>
		<description>Hi, I was wondering what, if any, literature there is on Davis&#039; relationship with his son, Joseph, and how he felt about his tragic death (since Joseph is the other child in the statue).  It could be that Jefferson simply did not mention his children or his feelings for them much in his correspondence.  So the lack of mention of Jim Limber would not necessarily mean that he did not care for the child or search for him. I understand the argument that the statue seems to send a message about Jefferson Davis and race relations in the South that is inaccurate, however, it is a historical fact that Jim and Joe were living with him at the same time and so the likelihood that he would have his arms around them like this is not so farfetched (even if he was separating them from arguing... that&#039;s actually what it looks like to me in this statue since he is frowning and the kids don&#039;t look that happy either).  Both of the children&#039;s stories are interesting sidelights to the Jefferson Davis story, and perhaps this is all the statue means to convey.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, I was wondering what, if any, literature there is on Davis&#8217; relationship with his son, Joseph, and how he felt about his tragic death (since Joseph is the other child in the statue).  It could be that Jefferson simply did not mention his children or his feelings for them much in his correspondence.  So the lack of mention of Jim Limber would not necessarily mean that he did not care for the child or search for him. I understand the argument that the statue seems to send a message about Jefferson Davis and race relations in the South that is inaccurate, however, it is a historical fact that Jim and Joe were living with him at the same time and so the likelihood that he would have his arms around them like this is not so farfetched (even if he was separating them from arguing&#8230; that&#8217;s actually what it looks like to me in this statue since he is frowning and the kids don&#8217;t look that happy either).  Both of the children&#8217;s stories are interesting sidelights to the Jefferson Davis story, and perhaps this is all the statue means to convey.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Levin</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/10/30/jim-limber-kidnapped-and-brought-to-beauvoir/#comment-18299</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Levin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Aug 2010 17:21:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=5307#comment-18299</guid>
		<description>I find it curious that you would compare Davis, who was a large slaveowner with Lincoln, who, despite his racial outlook managed to help bring about the end of slavery.  I will second Bob&#039;s point.  Your comment adds nothing to the questions that I have raised about the Limber story as well as the attempt on the part of the SCV to use it to further their own agenda.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it curious that you would compare Davis, who was a large slaveowner with Lincoln, who, despite his racial outlook managed to help bring about the end of slavery.  I will second Bob&#8217;s point.  Your comment adds nothing to the questions that I have raised about the Limber story as well as the attempt on the part of the SCV to use it to further their own agenda.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy Hall</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/10/30/jim-limber-kidnapped-and-brought-to-beauvoir/#comment-18297</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Hall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Aug 2010 16:36:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=5307#comment-18297</guid>
		<description>The term &quot;adopted&quot; gets thrown around a lot when it comes to the Davises and James Limber, but it has a very specific legal meaning, as well. Is there primary source documentation that Limber was actually adopted by the Davises, or are folks perhaps reading too much into his presence (along with other non-relatives) in the president&#039;s extended household?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The term &#8220;adopted&#8221; gets thrown around a lot when it comes to the Davises and James Limber, but it has a very specific legal meaning, as well. Is there primary source documentation that Limber was actually adopted by the Davises, or are folks perhaps reading too much into his presence (along with other non-relatives) in the president&#8217;s extended household?</p>
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