Comments on: Richard Slotkin’s Crater http://cwmemory.com/2009/11/04/richard-slotkins-crater/ Where History, Heritage, and Education Intersect Thu, 24 May 2012 14:23:35 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Kevin Levin http://cwmemory.com/2009/11/04/richard-slotkins-crater/#comment-12833 Kevin Levin Mon, 09 Nov 2009 02:40:02 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=5352#comment-12833 That I completely understand. As for your questions, feel free to fire away. That I completely understand. As for your questions, feel free to fire away.

]]> By: jfe http://cwmemory.com/2009/11/04/richard-slotkins-crater/#comment-12832 jfe Mon, 09 Nov 2009 02:26:32 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=5352#comment-12832 I'm not meaning to suggest this totally devalues the book, just that I would like to be able to trace down some of these quotes, I'm reasonably familiar with the story myself (not as familiar as you), so I can manage. I may ask you about a couple of them, if you don't mind ;-) I'm not meaning to suggest this totally devalues the book, just that I would like to be able to trace down some of these quotes, I'm reasonably familiar with the story myself (not as familiar as you), so I can manage. I may ask you about a couple of them, if you don't mind ;-)

]]> By: Kevin Levin http://cwmemory.com/2009/11/04/richard-slotkins-crater/#comment-12831 Kevin Levin Mon, 09 Nov 2009 02:06:09 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=5352#comment-12831 I posted on this when I first read the book and I agree that some people are going to have a problem with it. I actually included a few comments in my review, but decided to take it out owing to its length. Since I am familiar with most of the primary and secondary sources used in this book I was able to look beyond the thin citations. As I said, the value of the book is found in Slotkin's attention to setting the proper context in which to understand the massacre of black soldiers at the Crater by Confederates as well as racial attitudes within the Union army and on the two home fronts. <br><br>Compare Slotkin's lack of archival material and thin citations with John Schmutz's recent study. The latter is exhaustively researched, but the interpretation is incredibly weak at times. Slotkin may go too far in the other direction for some, but given its focus it ought to be read by a wide range of readers. I posted on this when I first read the book and I agree that some people are going to have a problem with it. I actually included a few comments in my review, but decided to take it out owing to its length. Since I am familiar with most of the primary and secondary sources used in this book I was able to look beyond the thin citations. As I said, the value of the book is found in Slotkin's attention to setting the proper context in which to understand the massacre of black soldiers at the Crater by Confederates as well as racial attitudes within the Union army and on the two home fronts.

Compare Slotkin's lack of archival material and thin citations with John Schmutz's recent study. The latter is exhaustively researched, but the interpretation is incredibly weak at times. Slotkin may go too far in the other direction for some, but given its focus it ought to be read by a wide range of readers.

]]> By: Kevin Levin http://cwmemory.com/2009/11/04/richard-slotkins-crater/#comment-12043 Kevin Levin Sun, 08 Nov 2009 20:40:02 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=5352#comment-12043 That I completely understand. As for your questions, feel free to fire away. That I completely understand. As for your questions, feel free to fire away.

]]> By: jfe http://cwmemory.com/2009/11/04/richard-slotkins-crater/#comment-12042 jfe Sun, 08 Nov 2009 20:26:32 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=5352#comment-12042 I'm not meaning to suggest this totally devalues the book, just that I would like to be able to trace down some of these quotes, I'm reasonably familiar with the story myself (not as familiar as you), so I can manage. I may ask you about a couple of them, if you don't mind ;-) I'm not meaning to suggest this totally devalues the book, just that I would like to be able to trace down some of these quotes, I'm reasonably familiar with the story myself (not as familiar as you), so I can manage. I may ask you about a couple of them, if you don't mind ;-)

]]> By: Kevin Levin http://cwmemory.com/2009/11/04/richard-slotkins-crater/#comment-12041 Kevin Levin Sun, 08 Nov 2009 20:06:09 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=5352#comment-12041 I posted on this when I first read the book and I agree that some people are going to have a problem with it. I actually included a few comments in my review, but decided to take it out owing to its length. Since I am familiar with most of the primary and secondary sources used in this book I was able to look beyond the thin citations. As I said, the value of the book is found in Slotkin's attention to setting the proper context in which to understand the massacre of black soldiers at the Crater by Confederates as well as racial attitudes within the Union army and on the two home fronts. <br><br>Compare Slotkin's lack of archival material and thin citations with John Schmutz's recent study. The latter is exhaustively researched, but the interpretation is incredibly weak at times. Slotkin may go too far in the other direction for some, but given its focus it ought to be read by a wide range of readers. I posted on this when I first read the book and I agree that some people are going to have a problem with it. I actually included a few comments in my review, but decided to take it out owing to its length. Since I am familiar with most of the primary and secondary sources used in this book I was able to look beyond the thin citations. As I said, the value of the book is found in Slotkin's attention to setting the proper context in which to understand the massacre of black soldiers at the Crater by Confederates as well as racial attitudes within the Union army and on the two home fronts.

Compare Slotkin's lack of archival material and thin citations with John Schmutz's recent study. The latter is exhaustively researched, but the interpretation is incredibly weak at times. Slotkin may go too far in the other direction for some, but given its focus it ought to be read by a wide range of readers.

]]> By: jfe http://cwmemory.com/2009/11/04/richard-slotkins-crater/#comment-12040 jfe Sun, 08 Nov 2009 13:39:16 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=5352#comment-12040 I'm reading Slotkin now---not far in, just started when the flu hit the family and knocked us all down---and while I look forward to a good book, I do have one complaint: weak/thin footnoting. He's got a boatload of quotes by people with no citation. I don't like that. I'm reading Slotkin now—not far in, just started when the flu hit the family and knocked us all down—and while I look forward to a good book, I do have one complaint: weak/thin footnoting. He's got a boatload of quotes by people with no citation. I don't like that.

]]> By: Chris Evans http://cwmemory.com/2009/11/04/richard-slotkins-crater/#comment-12039 Chris Evans Fri, 06 Nov 2009 19:18:23 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=5352#comment-12039 Nice review. I thought Slotkin could knock it out of the park. I always enjoyed his excellent novel on the battle. Nice review. I thought Slotkin could knock it out of the park. I always enjoyed his excellent novel on the battle.

]]> By: toby http://cwmemory.com/2009/11/04/richard-slotkins-crater/#comment-12034 toby Thu, 05 Nov 2009 09:42:17 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=5352#comment-12034 Got Slotkin's book a few weeks ago and read it. Excellent battle narrative, also with a first class treatment of the wider issues. Balanced presentation of Northern and Southern racism towards black soldiers. Northern soldiers even turned on black soldiers, blaming them for drawing Confederate fire. <br><br>I was aware of the endemic inefficiency in the Army of Potomac, but this description showed it went far deeper that I had previously thought. Without Grant's drive, the AOP would never have defeated Lee on its own.<br><br>As Wellington said, "Nothing except a battle lost can be so melancholy as a battle won" and the book leaves you with a sense of the awful tragedy that occurred at the Crater. Got Slotkin's book a few weeks ago and read it. Excellent battle narrative, also with a first class treatment of the wider issues. Balanced presentation of Northern and Southern racism towards black soldiers. Northern soldiers even turned on black soldiers, blaming them for drawing Confederate fire.

I was aware of the endemic inefficiency in the Army of Potomac, but this description showed it went far deeper that I had previously thought. Without Grant's drive, the AOP would never have defeated Lee on its own.

As Wellington said, “Nothing except a battle lost can be so melancholy as a battle won” and the book leaves you with a sense of the awful tragedy that occurred at the Crater.

]]> By: msimons http://cwmemory.com/2009/11/04/richard-slotkins-crater/#comment-12024 msimons Thu, 05 Nov 2009 02:08:15 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=5352#comment-12024 The Bible records these words "of the making of many books there is no end and much study is a weariness of the flesh." Ecc 12:12 The Bible records these words “of the making of many books there is no end and much study is a weariness of the flesh.” Ecc 12:12

]]> By: Kevin Levin http://cwmemory.com/2009/11/04/richard-slotkins-crater/#comment-12021 Kevin Levin Wed, 04 Nov 2009 21:36:05 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=5352#comment-12021 Just in case you missed it, I did review Schmutz's book for H-Net: <a href="http://www.h-net.org/reviews/showrev.php?id=24292" rel="nofollow">http://www.h-net.org/reviews/showrev.php?id=24292</a> Schmutz is a straightforward tactical study of the battle. The research is impressive, but the biggest problem is the writing and organization. This manuscript really needed a much better editor. At times the battle narrative is incredibly difficult to follow and the maps aren't much help. Schmutz does allude to some of the bigger issues related to the battle, but he never really explores them in much detail. <br><br>I think Slotkin has written a balanced and informative study that does justice to the actual battle without losing sight of the broader salient issues. He is such a good writer, which makes this a much easier book to read. Hope that helps. Just in case you missed it, I did review Schmutz's book for H-Net: http://www.h-net.org/reviews/showrev.php?id=24292 Schmutz is a straightforward tactical study of the battle. The research is impressive, but the biggest problem is the writing and organization. This manuscript really needed a much better editor. At times the battle narrative is incredibly difficult to follow and the maps aren't much help. Schmutz does allude to some of the bigger issues related to the battle, but he never really explores them in much detail.

I think Slotkin has written a balanced and informative study that does justice to the actual battle without losing sight of the broader salient issues. He is such a good writer, which makes this a much easier book to read. Hope that helps.

]]> By: hjs http://cwmemory.com/2009/11/04/richard-slotkins-crater/#comment-12020 hjs Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:45:42 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=5352#comment-12020 Kevin, care to contrast Slotkin and Schmutz? Kevin, care to contrast Slotkin and Schmutz?

]]>