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	<title>Comments on: Cathy Wood&#8217;s Black Confederates</title>
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	<description>Where History, Heritage, and Education Intersect</description>
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		<title>By: Ray O'Hara</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/11/09/cathy-woods-black-confederates/#comment-34771</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray O'Hara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 18:43:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=5379#comment-34771</guid>
		<description>the definition of Confederate has changed , now anybody living in the CSA is a &quot;confederate&quot; even  those who fought for the Union.   
there is no problem that can&#039;t be solved by moving the goalposts and rewriting the dictionary definition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the definition of Confederate has changed , now anybody living in the CSA is a &#8220;confederate&#8221; even  those who fought for the Union.<br />
there is no problem that can&#8217;t be solved by moving the goalposts and rewriting the dictionary definition.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy Hall</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/11/09/cathy-woods-black-confederates/#comment-34769</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Hall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 15:29:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=5379#comment-34769</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;All they had to do, as could any Confederate POW, was to take the oath and walk out the door admittedly in Union service but not in battle again as a rule.&lt;/blockquote&gt;You&#039;re speculating on the motives of those men, without offering anything as actual evidence of it. One doesn&#039;t have to look at the PoW very closely to recognize that, North and South, they were a muddled mess. We&#039;ve discussed elsewhere, for example, how several African Americans swept up with Confederate prisoners were stuck inside the walls of Camp Douglas in Chicago for &lt;i&gt;months&lt;/i&gt; before &lt;a href=&quot;http://kindredblood.wordpress.com/2011/07/26/as-plain-as-the-nose-on-their-face/#comment-1210&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the War Department figured out their status and cut them loose&lt;/a&gt;. We&#039;ve also seen a case where &lt;a href=&quot;http://deadconfederates.com/2011/07/10/hannibal-alexander-undercover-black-confederate-pow/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a very light-skinned slave intentionally &quot;passed&quot; as white and falsely claimed to be a soldier&lt;/a&gt;:&lt;blockquote&gt;in the army he was cook. He was in the siege of Fort Donelson. He was captured there, and went to Camp Douglass [sic.] as a Confederate prisoner. He answered roll call all the time as a white soldier. Being a bright [i.e., light-skinned] mulatto, he was brought to Vicksburg and exchanged with the others, and again went with his young master into service.

The Federal sergeant that called the roll was somewhat suspicious as to “Ham” (as he was called by the boys) being a slave, but he was told that living in Mississippi he was sunburned and that made him dark.

Hannibal was a very intelligent negro [sic.], and knew if he left his master he could go free, but he elected to stay with him among the white men he had been raised with, and preferred to suffer with them.&lt;/blockquote&gt;To be sure, this was written after Hannibal Alexander&#039;s death, and reflects white veterans&#039; view of the man and his motives. We don&#039;t know what Hannibal Alexander would have thought of this explanation. But even so, there&#039;s nothing here that suggests any particular loyalty to the Confederacy, or to its cause or defense; it&#039;s all framed as &lt;i&gt;personal&lt;/i&gt; loyalty to his master and his comrades. &lt;i&gt;Real&lt;/i&gt; Confederates chose to see the actions of men like Hannibal Alexander as those of a &quot;faithful slave,&quot; not those of a soldier willingly fighting to defend home and hearth.

Speculation about peoples&#039; motives, without specific evidence to suggest it, isn&#039;t of a whole lot of use to historians. But just for grins, I&#039;ll throw another one out that I&#039;ve never seen considered by the advocates of black Confederate soldiers: &lt;b&gt;they may well have seen imprisonment as the quickest route home&lt;/b&gt;. Well into 1864, prisoners on both sides had good reason to expect that their incarceration would be of relatively short duration, and within a few months they would be duly paroled and exchanged. That&#039;s the way it generally worked for the first three years of the war. It&#039;s entirely reasonable to believe that some men viewed remaining inside the pen as a difficult but temporary situation, one that would result in their being returned South in due course. Contrast that with the great unknown of being pushed out (literally) onto the streets of an unfamiliar Northern city, with no money, no friends, no contacts, barred from returning to the Confederacy for the duration, little prospect of being reunited with one&#039;s family anything soon, and no clear future, and it should not surprise that some would choose to remain in a hard, but presumably temporary, situation.

Finally, you offer this quote:&lt;blockquote&gt;Sir, you want me to desert, and I ain’t no deserter. Down South, deserters disgrace their families and I am never going to do that.”&lt;/blockquote&gt;I&#039;ve seen that quote splashed all over BCS websites, but never sourced. Can you give me an original citation for that, please?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>All they had to do, as could any Confederate POW, was to take the oath and walk out the door admittedly in Union service but not in battle again as a rule.</p></blockquote>
<p>You&#8217;re speculating on the motives of those men, without offering anything as actual evidence of it. One doesn&#8217;t have to look at the PoW very closely to recognize that, North and South, they were a muddled mess. We&#8217;ve discussed elsewhere, for example, how several African Americans swept up with Confederate prisoners were stuck inside the walls of Camp Douglas in Chicago for <i>months</i> before <a href="http://kindredblood.wordpress.com/2011/07/26/as-plain-as-the-nose-on-their-face/#comment-1210" rel="nofollow">the War Department figured out their status and cut them loose</a>. We&#8217;ve also seen a case where <a href="http://deadconfederates.com/2011/07/10/hannibal-alexander-undercover-black-confederate-pow/" rel="nofollow">a very light-skinned slave intentionally &#8220;passed&#8221; as white and falsely claimed to be a soldier</a>:<br />
<blockquote>in the army he was cook. He was in the siege of Fort Donelson. He was captured there, and went to Camp Douglass [sic.] as a Confederate prisoner. He answered roll call all the time as a white soldier. Being a bright [i.e., light-skinned] mulatto, he was brought to Vicksburg and exchanged with the others, and again went with his young master into service.</p>
<p>The Federal sergeant that called the roll was somewhat suspicious as to “Ham” (as he was called by the boys) being a slave, but he was told that living in Mississippi he was sunburned and that made him dark.</p>
<p>Hannibal was a very intelligent negro [sic.], and knew if he left his master he could go free, but he elected to stay with him among the white men he had been raised with, and preferred to suffer with them.</p></blockquote>
<p>To be sure, this was written after Hannibal Alexander&#8217;s death, and reflects white veterans&#8217; view of the man and his motives. We don&#8217;t know what Hannibal Alexander would have thought of this explanation. But even so, there&#8217;s nothing here that suggests any particular loyalty to the Confederacy, or to its cause or defense; it&#8217;s all framed as <i>personal</i> loyalty to his master and his comrades. <i>Real</i> Confederates chose to see the actions of men like Hannibal Alexander as those of a &#8220;faithful slave,&#8221; not those of a soldier willingly fighting to defend home and hearth.</p>
<p>Speculation about peoples&#8217; motives, without specific evidence to suggest it, isn&#8217;t of a whole lot of use to historians. But just for grins, I&#8217;ll throw another one out that I&#8217;ve never seen considered by the advocates of black Confederate soldiers: <b>they may well have seen imprisonment as the quickest route home</b>. Well into 1864, prisoners on both sides had good reason to expect that their incarceration would be of relatively short duration, and within a few months they would be duly paroled and exchanged. That&#8217;s the way it generally worked for the first three years of the war. It&#8217;s entirely reasonable to believe that some men viewed remaining inside the pen as a difficult but temporary situation, one that would result in their being returned South in due course. Contrast that with the great unknown of being pushed out (literally) onto the streets of an unfamiliar Northern city, with no money, no friends, no contacts, barred from returning to the Confederacy for the duration, little prospect of being reunited with one&#8217;s family anything soon, and no clear future, and it should not surprise that some would choose to remain in a hard, but presumably temporary, situation.</p>
<p>Finally, you offer this quote:<br />
<blockquote>Sir, you want me to desert, and I ain’t no deserter. Down South, deserters disgrace their families and I am never going to do that.”</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;ve seen that quote splashed all over BCS websites, but never sourced. Can you give me an original citation for that, please?</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Levin</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/11/09/cathy-woods-black-confederates/#comment-34764</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Levin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 11:38:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=5379#comment-34764</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;I grant the number of Negro Confederate Soldiers was small, 3000-10,000 according to a Harvard professor, as many as 15,000 by other sources but, to suggest that all or even most who did fight were coerced to it is entirely unrealistic.&lt;/em&gt;

No one has yet to do a serious statistical study, including Harvard&#039;s John Stauffer.  Stauffer pulled his number out of thin air, which he pretty much admitted to me in person.

You ask a number of questions, but your failure to arrive at an answer does not necessarily lead to your preferred conclusion.  That is why we do research. 

&lt;em&gt;Ironically, perhaps the first monument depicting a Negro soldier is the Confederate monument at Arlington erected in 1914.&lt;/em&gt;

That is not a black Confederate soldier depicted on this monument: http://deadconfederates.com/?s=1914+moses+ezekiel  This is a perfect example of what happens when one makes a claim without doing any serious research.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>I grant the number of Negro Confederate Soldiers was small, 3000-10,000 according to a Harvard professor, as many as 15,000 by other sources but, to suggest that all or even most who did fight were coerced to it is entirely unrealistic.</em></p>
<p>No one has yet to do a serious statistical study, including Harvard&#8217;s John Stauffer.  Stauffer pulled his number out of thin air, which he pretty much admitted to me in person.</p>
<p>You ask a number of questions, but your failure to arrive at an answer does not necessarily lead to your preferred conclusion.  That is why we do research. </p>
<p><em>Ironically, perhaps the first monument depicting a Negro soldier is the Confederate monument at Arlington erected in 1914.</em></p>
<p>That is not a black Confederate soldier depicted on this monument: <a href="http://deadconfederates.com/?s=1914+moses+ezekiel" rel="nofollow">http://deadconfederates.com/?s=1914+moses+ezekiel</a>  This is a perfect example of what happens when one makes a claim without doing any serious research.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/11/09/cathy-woods-black-confederates/#comment-34762</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 09:43:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=5379#comment-34762</guid>
		<description>&quot;Almost all the cases of black Confederates turn out to be slaves following masters.  This necessarily implies coercion and ought to prevent us from describing their presence with the Confederate army as one of “service.” 
Nonsense.  I grant the number of Negro Confederate Soldiers was small, 3000-10,000 according to a Harvard professor, as many as 15,000 by other sources but, to suggest that all or even most who did fight were coerced to it is entirely unrealistic.  First off, remember, not all slave owners were white! Black slave owners would have every bit as much at stake in the system (that I openly agree is morally wrong) as any white or Native American slave owner would have.  There are just too many instances of Blacks in situations putting them easily in reach of freedom that they did not take. For example, a Confederate Negro at Gettysburg brought in 2 Union prisoners their Confederate guards got too drunk to keep. Why did he not flee with the Yanks? Also at Gettysburg, &quot;reported among the rebel prisoners were seven blacks in Confederate uniforms fully armed as soldiers. Why were those Negroes standing with Confederate POWs? Why hadn&#039;t they begged off claiming freedom? Even if loyal to the Confederacy, it would have been easy to get off that way. At Camp Morton Ill US POW camp for Confederates, 24 Negros died. Why were they there. Coerced? All they had to do, as could any Confederate POW, was to take the oath and walk out the door admittedly in Union service but not in battle again as a rule.  Another Prisoner, when asked to take the oath of Loyalty was said to reply, &quot;Sir, you want me to desert, and I ain&#039;t no deserter. Down South, deserters disgrace their families and I am never going to do that.&quot;
If these people were forced into their service, why did they join Confederate veterans organizations and more to the point, why were they welcomed int these organizations if they had to have been forced into their service despised by those around them. 
&quot;If Wood and the UDC want to honor the memory and lives of these men, then they should put up markers clearly stating that they were slaves, period.&quot; As at the beginning of this, I say, nonsense! The instances of historical record are too many to dismiss.  To ignore or dismiss their service as ignorant or coerced is simply pandering to a racist element within the population that simply do not want to hear a truth they do not like.  It is also unjust to men who fought by their own choice.  They may have been brought to it as slaves, and by all means, not all were, but once there, a decision whether or not to stay and fight was theirs.  The possibilities and freedom of movement granted Negros with the army gave many in an enviable position to run.
Ironically, perhaps the first monument depicting a Negro soldier is the Confederate monument at Arlington erected in 1914.
Enough. I think I&#039;ve stated my point sufficiently.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Almost all the cases of black Confederates turn out to be slaves following masters.  This necessarily implies coercion and ought to prevent us from describing their presence with the Confederate army as one of “service.”<br />
Nonsense.  I grant the number of Negro Confederate Soldiers was small, 3000-10,000 according to a Harvard professor, as many as 15,000 by other sources but, to suggest that all or even most who did fight were coerced to it is entirely unrealistic.  First off, remember, not all slave owners were white! Black slave owners would have every bit as much at stake in the system (that I openly agree is morally wrong) as any white or Native American slave owner would have.  There are just too many instances of Blacks in situations putting them easily in reach of freedom that they did not take. For example, a Confederate Negro at Gettysburg brought in 2 Union prisoners their Confederate guards got too drunk to keep. Why did he not flee with the Yanks? Also at Gettysburg, &#8220;reported among the rebel prisoners were seven blacks in Confederate uniforms fully armed as soldiers. Why were those Negroes standing with Confederate POWs? Why hadn&#8217;t they begged off claiming freedom? Even if loyal to the Confederacy, it would have been easy to get off that way. At Camp Morton Ill US POW camp for Confederates, 24 Negros died. Why were they there. Coerced? All they had to do, as could any Confederate POW, was to take the oath and walk out the door admittedly in Union service but not in battle again as a rule.  Another Prisoner, when asked to take the oath of Loyalty was said to reply, &#8220;Sir, you want me to desert, and I ain&#8217;t no deserter. Down South, deserters disgrace their families and I am never going to do that.&#8221;<br />
If these people were forced into their service, why did they join Confederate veterans organizations and more to the point, why were they welcomed int these organizations if they had to have been forced into their service despised by those around them.<br />
&#8220;If Wood and the UDC want to honor the memory and lives of these men, then they should put up markers clearly stating that they were slaves, period.&#8221; As at the beginning of this, I say, nonsense! The instances of historical record are too many to dismiss.  To ignore or dismiss their service as ignorant or coerced is simply pandering to a racist element within the population that simply do not want to hear a truth they do not like.  It is also unjust to men who fought by their own choice.  They may have been brought to it as slaves, and by all means, not all were, but once there, a decision whether or not to stay and fight was theirs.  The possibilities and freedom of movement granted Negros with the army gave many in an enviable position to run.<br />
Ironically, perhaps the first monument depicting a Negro soldier is the Confederate monument at Arlington erected in 1914.<br />
Enough. I think I&#8217;ve stated my point sufficiently.</p>
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		<title>By: badgervan</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/11/09/cathy-woods-black-confederates/#comment-13833</link>
		<dc:creator>badgervan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Feb 2010 05:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=5379#comment-13833</guid>
		<description>Still with the &quot;black confederate soldiers&quot;, huh?  When revisionists like Stacey produce one, just one, official enlistment form or official government separation paper(s) of a black confederate who served as an authentic confederate soldier..... then I&#039;ll take another look.   Until such evidence is presented, this whole &quot;black confederate soldier&quot; thing is a crutch for certain southerners to lean on when trying to explain away the institution of slavery, and how it actually did cause that war.  
  All veterans hang unto their papers, as they open many doors after service is completed, and serve as actual proof of serving one&#039;s country.   I must have signed hundreds of official forms during my time in service, of which I still have many copies on file.   No vet would not have such papers.
  So, Stacey..... produce some.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Still with the &#8220;black confederate soldiers&#8221;, huh?  When revisionists like Stacey produce one, just one, official enlistment form or official government separation paper(s) of a black confederate who served as an authentic confederate soldier&#8230;.. then I&#8217;ll take another look.   Until such evidence is presented, this whole &#8220;black confederate soldier&#8221; thing is a crutch for certain southerners to lean on when trying to explain away the institution of slavery, and how it actually did cause that war.<br />
  All veterans hang unto their papers, as they open many doors after service is completed, and serve as actual proof of serving one&#8217;s country.   I must have signed hundreds of official forms during my time in service, of which I still have many copies on file.   No vet would not have such papers.<br />
  So, Stacey&#8230;.. produce some.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Levin</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/11/09/cathy-woods-black-confederates/#comment-13818</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Levin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 01:56:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=5379#comment-13818</guid>
		<description>Al,

Thanks for the kind words re: the blog. 

Please understand that I&#039;ve never once denied that no blacks served in the Confederate army.  I&#039;m not even so concerned with numbers, though I assume for the obvious reasons that the number is very small given the lack of evidence.  The Koger book is supposed to be worth reading, though I have not yet had the time to go through it.  Thanks for the comment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Al,</p>
<p>Thanks for the kind words re: the blog. </p>
<p>Please understand that I&#8217;ve never once denied that no blacks served in the Confederate army.  I&#8217;m not even so concerned with numbers, though I assume for the obvious reasons that the number is very small given the lack of evidence.  The Koger book is supposed to be worth reading, though I have not yet had the time to go through it.  Thanks for the comment.</p>
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		<title>By: Al Watson</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/11/09/cathy-woods-black-confederates/#comment-13815</link>
		<dc:creator>Al Watson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 01:48:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=5379#comment-13815</guid>
		<description>I have read you blog and find it interesting.  It seems some people are basing their argument on other people’s research and opinions.  My grandfather was 5 years old at the beginning of the Civil War.  His playmate was a slave boy about his own age.  In 1920, they met, embraced, and reminisced about their past.  Yes, you are right; there was a ‘bond” of which we know little about today.  We frequently judge historical events by today’s standards.

“Black Slave Owners (Free Black Slave Masters in South Carolina, 1790-1860)” by Larry Koger is an interesting and well documented book which may improve someone’s understanding of what some people thought about the subject of slavery during that time period.  Although I have no documented facts and figures to submit, I can assure you that a war as large and complex as the US Civil War will include people who fought for any reason including an African American fighting for the Confederacy.    (I would expect them to be the exception rather than the rule.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have read you blog and find it interesting.  It seems some people are basing their argument on other people’s research and opinions.  My grandfather was 5 years old at the beginning of the Civil War.  His playmate was a slave boy about his own age.  In 1920, they met, embraced, and reminisced about their past.  Yes, you are right; there was a ‘bond” of which we know little about today.  We frequently judge historical events by today’s standards.</p>
<p>“Black Slave Owners (Free Black Slave Masters in South Carolina, 1790-1860)” by Larry Koger is an interesting and well documented book which may improve someone’s understanding of what some people thought about the subject of slavery during that time period.  Although I have no documented facts and figures to submit, I can assure you that a war as large and complex as the US Civil War will include people who fought for any reason including an African American fighting for the Confederacy.    (I would expect them to be the exception rather than the rule.)</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Levin</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/11/09/cathy-woods-black-confederates/#comment-12672</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Levin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Dec 2009 01:52:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=5379#comment-12672</guid>
		<description>You are absolutely right and as you might suspect it is impossible to engage someone who approaches the study of history from this angle.  Information is presented without any understanding of source or analysis.  Even a cursory glance at this blog would demonstrate that these arguments have been presented over and leads to the same dead end.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are absolutely right and as you might suspect it is impossible to engage someone who approaches the study of history from this angle.  Information is presented without any understanding of source or analysis.  Even a cursory glance at this blog would demonstrate that these arguments have been presented over and leads to the same dead end.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Levin</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/11/09/cathy-woods-black-confederates/#comment-12630</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Levin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Dec 2009 19:52:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=5379#comment-12630</guid>
		<description>You are absolutely right and as you might suspect it is impossible to engage someone who approaches the study of history from this angle.  Information is presented without any understanding of source or analysis.  Even a cursory glance at this blog would demonstrate that these arguments have been presented over and leads to the same dead end.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are absolutely right and as you might suspect it is impossible to engage someone who approaches the study of history from this angle.  Information is presented without any understanding of source or analysis.  Even a cursory glance at this blog would demonstrate that these arguments have been presented over and leads to the same dead end.</p>
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		<title>By: Marc Ferguson</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/11/09/cathy-woods-black-confederates/#comment-12629</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc Ferguson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Dec 2009 12:19:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=5379#comment-12629</guid>
		<description>Kevin,&lt;br&gt;&quot;Stacey&quot; is merely cutting and pasting from web sites, and not even bothering to do her own writing, much less her own thinking.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Marc</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin,<br />&#8220;Stacey&#8221; is merely cutting and pasting from web sites, and not even bothering to do her own writing, much less her own thinking.</p>
<p>Marc</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Levin</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/11/09/cathy-woods-black-confederates/#comment-12624</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Levin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Dec 2009 09:17:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=5379#comment-12624</guid>
		<description>Who are these black academic historians?  Please do not point to Walter Williams since he is an economist and has never published anything serious in the field of history.  Even if we assume that your claims are true you still have not provided any evidence for the existence of large number of black Confederates.  Barrow and Segars is not a serious study and the Adams book is not about this subject at all.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Please take the time to read Bruce Levine&#039;s _Confederate Emancipation_ (Oxford University Press).  It&#039;s not long and is one of the few academic studies that addresses the role that blacks played in the Confederate Army, the debate itself that took place in the Confederacy, and the evolution of the myth of black Confederates. Until then this little thread is closed.  You&#039;ve been given every opportunity to provide new information on the subject.  Thanks for your understanding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who are these black academic historians?  Please do not point to Walter Williams since he is an economist and has never published anything serious in the field of history.  Even if we assume that your claims are true you still have not provided any evidence for the existence of large number of black Confederates.  Barrow and Segars is not a serious study and the Adams book is not about this subject at all.  </p>
<p>Please take the time to read Bruce Levine&#39;s _Confederate Emancipation_ (Oxford University Press).  It&#39;s not long and is one of the few academic studies that addresses the role that blacks played in the Confederate Army, the debate itself that took place in the Confederacy, and the evolution of the myth of black Confederates. Until then this little thread is closed.  You&#39;ve been given every opportunity to provide new information on the subject.  Thanks for your understanding.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: stacey</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2009/11/09/cathy-woods-black-confederates/#comment-12623</link>
		<dc:creator>stacey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Dec 2009 08:09:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=5379#comment-12623</guid>
		<description>The Black Confederate and Black History month &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;There are at the present moment, many colored men in the Confederate Army doing duty...as real soldiers, having muskets on their shoulders and bullets in their pockets....&quot; Frederick Douglas, former slave &amp; abolitionist (Fall, 1861)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;One hundred thirty-three years after the War, an African-American Scholar observed: &quot;When you eliminate the black Confederate soldier, you&#039;ve eliminated the history of the South…we share a common heritage with white Southerners who recall that era.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Historians have long held that black Southerners, free or slave, did not serve the Confederacy as soldiers, but worked instead as teamsters, laborers, cooks and personal servants. If those black men took up weapons in battle, this official version of history goes, it was because of circumstances and self-defense, not because they believed in the Southern cause. But recent scholarly works--many by African-American academics--have alleged a historical understatement and even a cover-up of blacks&#039; real participation.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Twelve Reasons We Don’t Believe in Black Confederates&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Many people reject the evidence that thousands of the South&#039;s 3,880,000 blacks, both free men and slaves, labored and fought, willingly, for the Southern Confederacy. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Why do they not believe, given the many accounts in the Official Records, contemporary newspaper reports, photographs, pension application records, and recollections of black Southerners? Here are 11 explanations. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;1. It may force us to change what we believe. Changing our beliefs is troublesome and effortful. Most of us have always believed that both the Confederate and Union armies were all white, just like they are shown in the 1994 film Gettysburg. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;2. It is not what most others believe. The leading guideline for adult behavior in questionable moral areas, according to the classic work of psychologist Lawrence Kohlberg is “What would people think?” (i.e., “what are other people doing”). We base our behavior—and ideas—on what others are doing, so that we appear “normal.” Since few others believe in black Confederates, we will not either, in order to fit in with the majority. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;3. It might contradict a prejudice. Are we ready to accept that a black man could be every bit as brave, and every bit as dedicated, as a white man in combat? Rejecting the claim that blacks fought is consistent with a prejudice against blacks. Perhaps those who reject out of hand the idea of black Confederates are expressing their own prejudice against blacks. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;4. It complicates our simple stereotype of blacks vs. whites as separate groups. But in truth, are these groups more alike than different? Maybe seeing them as different groups allows us to perceive differences that are not really there? A more complex perception is of one larger group with many diverse individuals, not of two groups of similar individuals. The simpler perception that fits a black versus white stereotype is consistent with the view that there were no black Confederates. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;5. How do we now teach Civil War history in 10 minutes? How do we summarize the reasons for the war in a few sentences, if in fact thousands of black Southerners fired in anger at the Northern troops coming &quot;to free them&quot;? At least one Northern soldier put his frustration at that incident into the Official Record of the War of the Rebellion: &quot;Here I had come South and was fighting to free this man,&quot; the disgusted U.S. major wrote in his diary; &quot;If I had made one false move on my horse, he would have shot my head off&quot; (Barrow et al., 2001, p. 43). &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;6. It complicates the simple portrayal of the North as Good, driving out the “Wicked Southern Slave master.” How can Northern soldiers serve in the role as Angels of Mercy, if black Confederates shot at them?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;7. It weakens support for the claim that the War was About Slavery &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;8. Many whites disbelieve that there were black Confederates because of &quot;White Guilt.&quot; Many white Americans feel undeserving of their wealth. Certainly, many are undeserving. Some give a small part of their wealth to the poor, and this seems to make them feel better. Others hire the poor to work for them—and then bask in their role as benefactors. Massachusetts writer—and abolitionist-- Henry Thoreau saw through this chimera 20 years before the War. He wrote concerning charity towards the poor at the end of the chapter “Economy,” in his masterpiece Walden. Regarding his wealthy friends who “helped” the poor, by paying them to work in their kitchens, Thoreau wrote: &quot;Let them work in their own kitchens.&quot; &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;One target for giving wealth has traditionally been black causes. A major recipient has been the NAACP, which endorses a movement to shift massive wealth to former slaves. Establishing that some of these slaves supported the Southern States, and that some blacks today, descendants of those slaves, still support the ideals of the Confederacy (and there were other ideals besides slavery), is inconsistent with the fundamental causes of White Guilt. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;9. It is inconsistent with the culture of Victimhood. If blacks chose to fight for the South, how can blacks be passive, helpless, unwilling victims? One black liberal dismissed evidence that blacks fought for the Southern Confederacy by referencing the &quot;abused wife syndrome&quot;: An accusation that these poor helpless blacks were victims and unable to act with volition and control over their environment. But what do we say of the blacks captured by Yankees who escaped and returned to their units?— Or of the more than 40 blacks attending the 1890 UCV Reunion, pictured in another essay? One has to believe an “abused wife syndrome” that is powerful indeed, to explain the activities of these black Confederates. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;10. It brings up the annoying question: Why did blacks fight? If the reasons blacks fought for the South include the same reasons whites fought for the South, or any of the same reasons that anyone fights for any cause in any war, then we have to look at those fighting black Confederates as deliberative, volitional, reasoning, diverse, individuals, just like the whites we talk about, when we talk about why whites fought for the South. This topic is dealt with as a separate essay. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;11. It brings up another annoying question: Why did anyone fight for the North? No one really knows why men go to war to fight. Once they get there, they don&#039;t fight for their flag, or their country, or God. They fight for their comrades. Some of the issues involved in the discussion of why men fight are presented in another essay in this series, “Why Did Blacks Fight for the Confederate States of America.” &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;12. We Want to Believe the War Was About Slavery &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Accepting that thousands of blacks fought for the Confederate States of America forces us to rethink the common assumption that the War was “about slavery.” Surely no one would dismiss slavery as an important factor. But to most modern Americans, slavery was the factor, perhaps the only factor. Again, to the extent that we believe that thousands of black Confederates fought for their country, our belief in slavery as the cause of the War is threatened. This need for cognitive balance is examined at length in another essay. To summarize that essay: We ask, “what balances the deaths of 600,000 Americans during the years 1861 to 1865?” We need some reason to balance that great tragedy. What is it? &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Getting even for Fort Sumter? No. Settling States Rights issues? No-- That answer never seems to explain why so many Americans died. Settling Tariff issues? No-- Same shortcoming, plus, few modern Americans can stay awake during any discussion of tariff issues. How about, to Preserve our Great Experiment in Democracy! No-- it is hard to sell this idea to modern Americans as the reason that more than half a million Americans died. The argument typically holds that had the Confederacy established itself, then there would have been more secessions, until ultimately we would have had a separate country, or two, in everyone’s back yard. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Finally, the End of slavery: Yes: Now there’s a reason we can celebrate: Slavery is bad; The South had slavery; therefore the South was bad and the Good North fought against the South, and slavery ended. Any child can grasp this argument; try explaining tariff issues to that person. Try explaining States Rights to that person—try explaining the issue of free trade and Northern versus Southern import and export economies—try explaining the diverging cultural bases of the North and the South. You will get a big yawn. Consider Ken Burns’s popular and acclaimed The Civil War—the most popular PBS series in history. To his great credit, Mr. Burns shows the appalling tragedy of 600,000 thousand dead Americans. And running throughout this 11 hour drama is the theme that ending slavery was the reason for these deaths. At one point a black woman historian makes that point explicit: The Union lifted the War to a higher plane, she explains. Clearly, Burns has accepted the idea that the War was “over slavery”—if only to give some sense to the TV audience who might wonder why America fought itself, and to do it in the TV schedule he had to work with. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Ultimately we believe the War was about the Ending of Slavery because that is the only cause that provides the cognitive balance we need. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The great evil of more than 600,000 deaths “balances” in our minds against the great evil of slavery. &lt;br&gt;“Ending Slavery” provides that cognitive balance for the War of 1861-- Never mind that slavery ended everywhere else in the world without bloodshed. Never mind that other factors explain that the North and South became different countries long before 1860. Slavery provides that simple cognitive explanation. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Any evidence that blacks fought for the South is inconsistent with the notion that the War was only about slavery. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;References&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Adams, Charles. (2000). When in the Course of Human Events: Arguing the Case for Southern Secession. Lanham, Maryland: Rowman &amp; Littlefield Publishers. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Barrow, C. K., Segars, J. H., &amp; R.B. Rosenburg, R.B. (Eds.) (2001). Black Confederates, Pelican Publishing Company, Gretna.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Black Confederate and Black History month </p>
<p>&#8220;There are at the present moment, many colored men in the Confederate Army doing duty&#8230;as real soldiers, having muskets on their shoulders and bullets in their pockets&#8230;.&#8221; Frederick Douglas, former slave &#038; abolitionist (Fall, 1861)</p>
<p>One hundred thirty-three years after the War, an African-American Scholar observed: &#8220;When you eliminate the black Confederate soldier, you&#39;ve eliminated the history of the South…we share a common heritage with white Southerners who recall that era.</p>
<p>Historians have long held that black Southerners, free or slave, did not serve the Confederacy as soldiers, but worked instead as teamsters, laborers, cooks and personal servants. If those black men took up weapons in battle, this official version of history goes, it was because of circumstances and self-defense, not because they believed in the Southern cause. But recent scholarly works&#8211;many by African-American academics&#8211;have alleged a historical understatement and even a cover-up of blacks&#39; real participation.</p>
<p>Twelve Reasons We Don’t Believe in Black Confederates</p>
<p>Many people reject the evidence that thousands of the South&#39;s 3,880,000 blacks, both free men and slaves, labored and fought, willingly, for the Southern Confederacy. </p>
<p>Why do they not believe, given the many accounts in the Official Records, contemporary newspaper reports, photographs, pension application records, and recollections of black Southerners? Here are 11 explanations. </p>
<p>1. It may force us to change what we believe. Changing our beliefs is troublesome and effortful. Most of us have always believed that both the Confederate and Union armies were all white, just like they are shown in the 1994 film Gettysburg. </p>
<p>2. It is not what most others believe. The leading guideline for adult behavior in questionable moral areas, according to the classic work of psychologist Lawrence Kohlberg is “What would people think?” (i.e., “what are other people doing”). We base our behavior—and ideas—on what others are doing, so that we appear “normal.” Since few others believe in black Confederates, we will not either, in order to fit in with the majority. </p>
<p>3. It might contradict a prejudice. Are we ready to accept that a black man could be every bit as brave, and every bit as dedicated, as a white man in combat? Rejecting the claim that blacks fought is consistent with a prejudice against blacks. Perhaps those who reject out of hand the idea of black Confederates are expressing their own prejudice against blacks. </p>
<p>4. It complicates our simple stereotype of blacks vs. whites as separate groups. But in truth, are these groups more alike than different? Maybe seeing them as different groups allows us to perceive differences that are not really there? A more complex perception is of one larger group with many diverse individuals, not of two groups of similar individuals. The simpler perception that fits a black versus white stereotype is consistent with the view that there were no black Confederates. </p>
<p>5. How do we now teach Civil War history in 10 minutes? How do we summarize the reasons for the war in a few sentences, if in fact thousands of black Southerners fired in anger at the Northern troops coming &#8220;to free them&#8221;? At least one Northern soldier put his frustration at that incident into the Official Record of the War of the Rebellion: &#8220;Here I had come South and was fighting to free this man,&#8221; the disgusted U.S. major wrote in his diary; &#8220;If I had made one false move on my horse, he would have shot my head off&#8221; (Barrow et al., 2001, p. 43). </p>
<p>6. It complicates the simple portrayal of the North as Good, driving out the “Wicked Southern Slave master.” How can Northern soldiers serve in the role as Angels of Mercy, if black Confederates shot at them?</p>
<p>7. It weakens support for the claim that the War was About Slavery </p>
<p>8. Many whites disbelieve that there were black Confederates because of &#8220;White Guilt.&#8221; Many white Americans feel undeserving of their wealth. Certainly, many are undeserving. Some give a small part of their wealth to the poor, and this seems to make them feel better. Others hire the poor to work for them—and then bask in their role as benefactors. Massachusetts writer—and abolitionist&#8211; Henry Thoreau saw through this chimera 20 years before the War. He wrote concerning charity towards the poor at the end of the chapter “Economy,” in his masterpiece Walden. Regarding his wealthy friends who “helped” the poor, by paying them to work in their kitchens, Thoreau wrote: &#8220;Let them work in their own kitchens.&#8221; </p>
<p>One target for giving wealth has traditionally been black causes. A major recipient has been the NAACP, which endorses a movement to shift massive wealth to former slaves. Establishing that some of these slaves supported the Southern States, and that some blacks today, descendants of those slaves, still support the ideals of the Confederacy (and there were other ideals besides slavery), is inconsistent with the fundamental causes of White Guilt. </p>
<p>9. It is inconsistent with the culture of Victimhood. If blacks chose to fight for the South, how can blacks be passive, helpless, unwilling victims? One black liberal dismissed evidence that blacks fought for the Southern Confederacy by referencing the &#8220;abused wife syndrome&#8221;: An accusation that these poor helpless blacks were victims and unable to act with volition and control over their environment. But what do we say of the blacks captured by Yankees who escaped and returned to their units?— Or of the more than 40 blacks attending the 1890 UCV Reunion, pictured in another essay? One has to believe an “abused wife syndrome” that is powerful indeed, to explain the activities of these black Confederates. </p>
<p>10. It brings up the annoying question: Why did blacks fight? If the reasons blacks fought for the South include the same reasons whites fought for the South, or any of the same reasons that anyone fights for any cause in any war, then we have to look at those fighting black Confederates as deliberative, volitional, reasoning, diverse, individuals, just like the whites we talk about, when we talk about why whites fought for the South. This topic is dealt with as a separate essay. </p>
<p>11. It brings up another annoying question: Why did anyone fight for the North? No one really knows why men go to war to fight. Once they get there, they don&#39;t fight for their flag, or their country, or God. They fight for their comrades. Some of the issues involved in the discussion of why men fight are presented in another essay in this series, “Why Did Blacks Fight for the Confederate States of America.” </p>
<p>12. We Want to Believe the War Was About Slavery </p>
<p>Accepting that thousands of blacks fought for the Confederate States of America forces us to rethink the common assumption that the War was “about slavery.” Surely no one would dismiss slavery as an important factor. But to most modern Americans, slavery was the factor, perhaps the only factor. Again, to the extent that we believe that thousands of black Confederates fought for their country, our belief in slavery as the cause of the War is threatened. This need for cognitive balance is examined at length in another essay. To summarize that essay: We ask, “what balances the deaths of 600,000 Americans during the years 1861 to 1865?” We need some reason to balance that great tragedy. What is it? </p>
<p>Getting even for Fort Sumter? No. Settling States Rights issues? No&#8211; That answer never seems to explain why so many Americans died. Settling Tariff issues? No&#8211; Same shortcoming, plus, few modern Americans can stay awake during any discussion of tariff issues. How about, to Preserve our Great Experiment in Democracy! No&#8211; it is hard to sell this idea to modern Americans as the reason that more than half a million Americans died. The argument typically holds that had the Confederacy established itself, then there would have been more secessions, until ultimately we would have had a separate country, or two, in everyone’s back yard. </p>
<p>Finally, the End of slavery: Yes: Now there’s a reason we can celebrate: Slavery is bad; The South had slavery; therefore the South was bad and the Good North fought against the South, and slavery ended. Any child can grasp this argument; try explaining tariff issues to that person. Try explaining States Rights to that person—try explaining the issue of free trade and Northern versus Southern import and export economies—try explaining the diverging cultural bases of the North and the South. You will get a big yawn. Consider Ken Burns’s popular and acclaimed The Civil War—the most popular PBS series in history. To his great credit, Mr. Burns shows the appalling tragedy of 600,000 thousand dead Americans. And running throughout this 11 hour drama is the theme that ending slavery was the reason for these deaths. At one point a black woman historian makes that point explicit: The Union lifted the War to a higher plane, she explains. Clearly, Burns has accepted the idea that the War was “over slavery”—if only to give some sense to the TV audience who might wonder why America fought itself, and to do it in the TV schedule he had to work with. </p>
<p>Ultimately we believe the War was about the Ending of Slavery because that is the only cause that provides the cognitive balance we need. </p>
<p>The great evil of more than 600,000 deaths “balances” in our minds against the great evil of slavery. <br />“Ending Slavery” provides that cognitive balance for the War of 1861&#8211; Never mind that slavery ended everywhere else in the world without bloodshed. Never mind that other factors explain that the North and South became different countries long before 1860. Slavery provides that simple cognitive explanation. </p>
<p>Any evidence that blacks fought for the South is inconsistent with the notion that the War was only about slavery. </p>
<p>References</p>
<p>Adams, Charles. (2000). When in the Course of Human Events: Arguing the Case for Southern Secession. Lanham, Maryland: Rowman &#038; Littlefield Publishers. </p>
<p>Barrow, C. K., Segars, J. H., &#038; R.B. Rosenburg, R.B. (Eds.) (2001). Black Confederates, Pelican Publishing Company, Gretna.</p>
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