Comments on: The United States is Not a Miracle http://cwmemory.com/2009/11/19/the-united-states-is-not-a-miracle/ Where History, Heritage, and Education Intersect Thu, 24 May 2012 14:23:35 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Anonymous http://cwmemory.com/2009/11/19/the-united-states-is-not-a-miracle/#comment-12724 Anonymous Tue, 24 Nov 2009 22:42:11 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=5518#comment-12724 I think you draw a good distinction here Kevin. Jesus existed, but whether or not he was the Christ is a matter for faith. I think you draw a good distinction here Kevin. Jesus existed, but whether or not he was the Christ is a matter for faith.

]]> By: Kevin Levin http://cwmemory.com/2009/11/19/the-united-states-is-not-a-miracle/#comment-12726 Kevin Levin Tue, 24 Nov 2009 22:13:56 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=5518#comment-12726 Let me just add for clarity that I believe the religious life of the Founding generation to be very important as is religious history as a whole. That said, nothing about how I judge them in a moral context one way or the other hinges on whether they believed in God, attended church, etc. Let me just add for clarity that I believe the religious life of the Founding generation to be very important as is religious history as a whole. That said, nothing about how I judge them in a moral context one way or the other hinges on whether they believed in God, attended church, etc.

]]> By: acwresearcher http://cwmemory.com/2009/11/19/the-united-states-is-not-a-miracle/#comment-12725 acwresearcher Tue, 24 Nov 2009 21:58:55 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=5518#comment-12725 Thanks for calling that one. Most historians do not deny that Christ lived. The question, one that you are absolutely right in implying would be better debated elsewhere, is where this whole miracle thing, as related to this specific event, lies. Thanks for calling that one. Most historians do not deny that Christ lived. The question, one that you are absolutely right in implying would be better debated elsewhere, is where this whole miracle thing, as related to this specific event, lies.

]]> By: acwresearcher http://cwmemory.com/2009/11/19/the-united-states-is-not-a-miracle/#comment-12727 acwresearcher Tue, 24 Nov 2009 21:50:05 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=5518#comment-12727 I agree with you when you say "I don't know why anyone should accept it. Seems to me an individual has as much of a reason to accept it as another does to reject it." No one has to accept it. Therin lies the concept of free will. I agree with you when you say “I don't know why anyone should accept it. Seems to me an individual has as much of a reason to accept it as another does to reject it.” No one has to accept it. Therin lies the concept of free will.

]]> By: acwresearcher http://cwmemory.com/2009/11/19/the-united-states-is-not-a-miracle/#comment-12728 acwresearcher Tue, 24 Nov 2009 21:43:55 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=5518#comment-12728 Jefferson did indeed write his own copy of the Gospels with all of the miracles removed. In addition, most of what I have read about Jefferson does not lead me to believe that he accepted Christ's divinity and did not believe He had developed as a philosopher when He was crucified. Washington attended church regularly, but did not attend when Communion was taken -- the sacrament that represents Christ's body and blood. My take based on the reading I have done is that he did not believe that about the sacrament, therefore did not partake in it. That would lend itself to his disbelief in what you call a "high" miracle. Jefferson did indeed write his own copy of the Gospels with all of the miracles removed. In addition, most of what I have read about Jefferson does not lead me to believe that he accepted Christ's divinity and did not believe He had developed as a philosopher when He was crucified. Washington attended church regularly, but did not attend when Communion was taken — the sacrament that represents Christ's body and blood. My take based on the reading I have done is that he did not believe that about the sacrament, therefore did not partake in it. That would lend itself to his disbelief in what you call a “high” miracle.

]]> By: Kevin Levin http://cwmemory.com/2009/11/19/the-united-states-is-not-a-miracle/#comment-12723 Kevin Levin Tue, 24 Nov 2009 21:43:04 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=5518#comment-12723 There is some historical basis to what event? If you mean that Jesus existed I certainly agree, but the question of his resurrection is an entirely different matter and one that I am not going to get into here for the obvious reasons. Thanks as always. There is some historical basis to what event? If you mean that Jesus existed I certainly agree, but the question of his resurrection is an entirely different matter and one that I am not going to get into here for the obvious reasons. Thanks as always.

]]> By: acwresearcher http://cwmemory.com/2009/11/19/the-united-states-is-not-a-miracle/#comment-12722 acwresearcher Tue, 24 Nov 2009 21:29:05 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=5518#comment-12722 You are correct in that the resurrection of Christ is a "religious miracle," however, there is some historical basis to the event. Christ did live; Jewish historian Flavius Josephus outlined his life. Did he rise from the dead? Well, while that is a matter of faith and would qualify as a "religious miracle." I did, however, state that most things in this world are able to be explained through the application of human reason rather than any concept of the miraculous, including most things in history. I'll be happy to defend the resurrection of Christ as a "religious miracle" -- one you may not choose to believe in, but even I, a person of faith, do not equate the resurrection of Christ with the founding of the US.<br><br>I would further argue that thaose who accept the resurrection as both a fact and a miracle believe they have an explanation for it. A natural explanation? No. A phenomenal one? Yes. You are correct in that the resurrection of Christ is a “religious miracle,” however, there is some historical basis to the event. Christ did live; Jewish historian Flavius Josephus outlined his life. Did he rise from the dead? Well, while that is a matter of faith and would qualify as a “religious miracle.” I did, however, state that most things in this world are able to be explained through the application of human reason rather than any concept of the miraculous, including most things in history. I'll be happy to defend the resurrection of Christ as a “religious miracle” — one you may not choose to believe in, but even I, a person of faith, do not equate the resurrection of Christ with the founding of the US.

I would further argue that thaose who accept the resurrection as both a fact and a miracle believe they have an explanation for it. A natural explanation? No. A phenomenal one? Yes.

]]> By: Kevin Levin http://cwmemory.com/2009/11/19/the-united-states-is-not-a-miracle/#comment-12721 Kevin Levin Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:25:39 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=5518#comment-12721 I do a couple of lessons that utilize counterfactuals. They can be very effective when done right. Thanks for the kind words re: the blog. Hope to hear more from you. I do a couple of lessons that utilize counterfactuals. They can be very effective when done right. Thanks for the kind words re: the blog. Hope to hear more from you.

]]> By: boydharris http://cwmemory.com/2009/11/19/the-united-states-is-not-a-miracle/#comment-12720 boydharris Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:25:05 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=5518#comment-12720 Getting past the myth of "inevitability" is one of the main goals in teaching history. One of our professors, here at UNC-Charlotte, is teaching a freshman history class and using alternative history books. They study the Revolution, Civil War, and WWII and then read alternative histories about these events. Beyond the initial confusion of some of the students, I believe this approach could be very effective in teaching critical analysis. "What Ifs?" can help illustrate to students the other options that were available, and hopefully, provide insight into our nation's development.<br><br>On a personal note, I have been reading this blog for only about a month. I study Civil War commemoration, specifically the commemoration of the Battle of Fort Pillow, so I really enjoy reading about the current trends and events in Civil War memory. Keep up the good work, Kevin. Getting past the myth of “inevitability” is one of the main goals in teaching history. One of our professors, here at UNC-Charlotte, is teaching a freshman history class and using alternative history books. They study the Revolution, Civil War, and WWII and then read alternative histories about these events. Beyond the initial confusion of some of the students, I believe this approach could be very effective in teaching critical analysis. “What Ifs?” can help illustrate to students the other options that were available, and hopefully, provide insight into our nation's development.

On a personal note, I have been reading this blog for only about a month. I study Civil War commemoration, specifically the commemoration of the Battle of Fort Pillow, so I really enjoy reading about the current trends and events in Civil War memory. Keep up the good work, Kevin.

]]> By: Anonymous http://cwmemory.com/2009/11/19/the-united-states-is-not-a-miracle/#comment-12443 Anonymous Tue, 24 Nov 2009 16:42:11 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=5518#comment-12443 I think you draw a good distinction here Kevin. Jesus existed, but whether or not he was the Christ is a matter for faith. I think you draw a good distinction here Kevin. Jesus existed, but whether or not he was the Christ is a matter for faith.

]]> By: Kevin Levin http://cwmemory.com/2009/11/19/the-united-states-is-not-a-miracle/#comment-12436 Kevin Levin Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:43:04 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=5518#comment-12436 There is some historical basis to what event? If you mean that Jesus existed I certainly agree, but the question of his resurrection is an entirely different matter and one that I am not going to get into here for the obvious reasons. Thanks as always. There is some historical basis to what event? If you mean that Jesus existed I certainly agree, but the question of his resurrection is an entirely different matter and one that I am not going to get into here for the obvious reasons. Thanks as always.

]]> By: acwresearcher http://cwmemory.com/2009/11/19/the-united-states-is-not-a-miracle/#comment-12435 acwresearcher Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:29:05 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=5518#comment-12435 You are correct in that the resurrection of Christ is a "religious miracle," however, there is some historical basis to the event. Christ did live; Jewish historian Flavius Josephus outlined his life. Did he rise from the dead? Well, while that is a matter of faith and would qualify as a "religious miracle." I did, however, state that most things in this world are able to be explained through the application of human reason rather than any concept of the miraculous, including most things in history. I'll be happy to defend the resurrection of Christ as a "religious miracle" -- one you may not choose to believe in, but even I, a person of faith, do not equate the resurrection of Christ with the founding of the US. You are correct in that the resurrection of Christ is a “religious miracle,” however, there is some historical basis to the event. Christ did live; Jewish historian Flavius Josephus outlined his life. Did he rise from the dead? Well, while that is a matter of faith and would qualify as a “religious miracle.” I did, however, state that most things in this world are able to be explained through the application of human reason rather than any concept of the miraculous, including most things in history. I'll be happy to defend the resurrection of Christ as a “religious miracle” — one you may not choose to believe in, but even I, a person of faith, do not equate the resurrection of Christ with the founding of the US.

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