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	<title>Comments on: A Glaring Omission</title>
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	<link>http://cwmemory.com/2010/01/15/a-glaring-omission/</link>
	<description>Where History, Heritage, and Education Intersect</description>
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		<title>By: Kevin Levin</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2010/01/15/a-glaring-omission/#comment-13507</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Levin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 06:54:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=6062#comment-13507</guid>
		<description>Thanks so much for passing this along.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks so much for passing this along.</p>
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		<title>By: EarthTone</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2010/01/15/a-glaring-omission/#comment-13506</link>
		<dc:creator>EarthTone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 06:52:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=6062#comment-13506</guid>
		<description>In South Carolina, plans are underway to build a memorial the the Denmark Vesey Conspiracy:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.postandcourier.com/news/2010/feb/02/groundbreaking/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.postandcourier.com/news/2010/feb/02/...&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In South Carolina, plans are underway to build a memorial the the Denmark Vesey Conspiracy:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.postandcourier.com/news/2010/feb/02/groundbreaking/" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://www.postandcourier.com/news/2010/feb/02/" rel="nofollow">http://www.postandcourier.com/news/2010/feb/02/</a>&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Sherree</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2010/01/15/a-glaring-omission/#comment-13160</link>
		<dc:creator>Sherree</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jan 2010 18:22:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=6062#comment-13160</guid>
		<description>&quot;We can accept any number of scenarios where the killing of women and children is not understood as murder--for example, the bombing of European cities during the WWII&quot;.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I don&#039;t accept that scenario, or any other scenario, that involves the killing of women and children, and excuses that killing as not murder--(what is the sanitized phrase we use?--oh yes, &quot;collateral damage&quot;) &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;That said, I well see your point about Nat Turner. Nat had many reasons to be enraged. So did Dr. King and all of the African American men and women who worked with him to secure equality--that work involving being beaten, scorned, and sometimes murdered. That is one of the things that is so extraordinary about Dr. King. He brilliantly employed non violent resistance as a lethal weapon to tyranny.  &lt;br&gt;Malcolm was a brilliant leader, too, and, if I remember correctly, after his trip to Mecca, he began to question violence as a way to achieve equality. Of course, he died--violently--before he could implement his new ideas. I think we need to reframe the question, and see non violent resistance, as Dr. King practiced it, for what it was--a deadly weapon for those in the way of progress. Why do we extol violence? On the other hand, how do you stop violence when there is no system in place to stop it. Gandhi forced the British to live up to their laws and to their ideals. Dr. King did the same in America. What were Nat Turner&#039;s options?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;We can accept any number of scenarios where the killing of women and children is not understood as murder&#8211;for example, the bombing of European cities during the WWII&#8221;.</p>
<p>I don&#39;t accept that scenario, or any other scenario, that involves the killing of women and children, and excuses that killing as not murder&#8211;(what is the sanitized phrase we use?&#8211;oh yes, &#8220;collateral damage&#8221;) </p>
<p>That said, I well see your point about Nat Turner. Nat had many reasons to be enraged. So did Dr. King and all of the African American men and women who worked with him to secure equality&#8211;that work involving being beaten, scorned, and sometimes murdered. That is one of the things that is so extraordinary about Dr. King. He brilliantly employed non violent resistance as a lethal weapon to tyranny.  <br />Malcolm was a brilliant leader, too, and, if I remember correctly, after his trip to Mecca, he began to question violence as a way to achieve equality. Of course, he died&#8211;violently&#8211;before he could implement his new ideas. I think we need to reframe the question, and see non violent resistance, as Dr. King practiced it, for what it was&#8211;a deadly weapon for those in the way of progress. Why do we extol violence? On the other hand, how do you stop violence when there is no system in place to stop it. Gandhi forced the British to live up to their laws and to their ideals. Dr. King did the same in America. What were Nat Turner&#39;s options?</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Levin</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2010/01/15/a-glaring-omission/#comment-13154</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Levin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 23:18:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=6062#comment-13154</guid>
		<description>Hi Jason.  Nice to hear from you.  You make a good point and it reminds me that I should have taken more care in writing the post.  I think we should distinguish between fights for freedom that take place internally as opposed to external fights.  In reference to the latter I agree with you 100% that &quot;America loves freedom-FIGHTERS.&quot;  However, if we consider the Civil War our popular memory is of a peaceful story of emancipation that highlights Lincoln&#039;s signing of the EP as opposed to the hard fighting that black soldiers engaged in on the battlefield.  I maintain that we have difficulty acknowledging the violence that was necessary to bring about the end of slavery and racial equality.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;In addition, I do not want to reduce our understanding of why Turner doesn&#039;t have a monument to what is contained in this post.  It&#039;s a much more complex story than anything I&#039;ve suggested here.  My guess is that we probably agree on much of that narrative.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;By the way, you will be happy to know that one of my students is reading a chapter in &quot;Diehard Rebels&quot; as part of his independent study.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jason.  Nice to hear from you.  You make a good point and it reminds me that I should have taken more care in writing the post.  I think we should distinguish between fights for freedom that take place internally as opposed to external fights.  In reference to the latter I agree with you 100% that &#8220;America loves freedom-FIGHTERS.&#8221;  However, if we consider the Civil War our popular memory is of a peaceful story of emancipation that highlights Lincoln&#39;s signing of the EP as opposed to the hard fighting that black soldiers engaged in on the battlefield.  I maintain that we have difficulty acknowledging the violence that was necessary to bring about the end of slavery and racial equality.  </p>
<p>In addition, I do not want to reduce our understanding of why Turner doesn&#39;t have a monument to what is contained in this post.  It&#39;s a much more complex story than anything I&#39;ve suggested here.  My guess is that we probably agree on much of that narrative.  </p>
<p>By the way, you will be happy to know that one of my students is reading a chapter in &#8220;Diehard Rebels&#8221; as part of his independent study.</p>
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		<title>By: David Rhoads</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2010/01/15/a-glaring-omission/#comment-13153</link>
		<dc:creator>David Rhoads</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 22:42:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=6062#comment-13153</guid>
		<description>Some people like that do. John Brown, for one. There are statues of him here and there--at the site of his farm in North Elba, New York, and in Osawatomie, Kansas, among others--and at least one famous and frequently reproduced painting: the mural by John Steuart Curry in the Kansas State Capitol in Topeka. I don&#039;t think there&#039;s a John Brown day anywhere, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some people like that do. John Brown, for one. There are statues of him here and there&#8211;at the site of his farm in North Elba, New York, and in Osawatomie, Kansas, among others&#8211;and at least one famous and frequently reproduced painting: the mural by John Steuart Curry in the Kansas State Capitol in Topeka. I don&#39;t think there&#39;s a John Brown day anywhere, though.</p>
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		<title>By: msimons</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2010/01/15/a-glaring-omission/#comment-13147</link>
		<dc:creator>msimons</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 20:19:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=6062#comment-13147</guid>
		<description>I see your point Kevin when I was still teaching History most Textbooks had maybe a page some only a Paragraph on Nat Turner and his rebellion. His life and actions dialed up the mistrust and retoric between the North and South and between Slave owners and Slaves. Lots of Slave Laws were passed in Southern states as an reaction to Nat&#039;s Murderous activities. Plus add to the Mix the Slave Revolts in the Caribbean and you have a nasty political/ social situation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see your point Kevin when I was still teaching History most Textbooks had maybe a page some only a Paragraph on Nat Turner and his rebellion. His life and actions dialed up the mistrust and retoric between the North and South and between Slave owners and Slaves. Lots of Slave Laws were passed in Southern states as an reaction to Nat&#39;s Murderous activities. Plus add to the Mix the Slave Revolts in the Caribbean and you have a nasty political/ social situation.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Levin</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2010/01/15/a-glaring-omission/#comment-13144</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Levin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 19:36:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=6062#comment-13144</guid>
		<description>Hi Laura.  I think the student&#039;s question hits the nail on the head.  Malcolm functions as a foil against King.  On the one hand we downplay King&#039;s references to violence (especially his anti-Vietnam speeches of 1967-68) and we do the same in reference to Malcolm&#039;s supposed violent tendencies.  What is lost between both King and Malcolm is the fact that thousands of black and white Americans struggled under adverse conditions to bring about important civil rights victories.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Turner complicates our view of ourselves and our preferred narrative of racial progress.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Laura.  I think the student&#39;s question hits the nail on the head.  Malcolm functions as a foil against King.  On the one hand we downplay King&#39;s references to violence (especially his anti-Vietnam speeches of 1967-68) and we do the same in reference to Malcolm&#39;s supposed violent tendencies.  What is lost between both King and Malcolm is the fact that thousands of black and white Americans struggled under adverse conditions to bring about important civil rights victories.  </p>
<p>Turner complicates our view of ourselves and our preferred narrative of racial progress.</p>
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		<title>By: laurarobertson</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2010/01/15/a-glaring-omission/#comment-13143</link>
		<dc:creator>laurarobertson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 19:31:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=6062#comment-13143</guid>
		<description>One of my students in African American Literature asked why we celebrate MLK day and not Malcolm X day. My answer was similar to yours here. I think that our discomfort with violent means extends beyond Virginia and given Nelson Mandela&#039;s fear of voicing &quot;by any means necessary&quot; in Spike Lee&#039;s biopic may even extend beyond the nation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of my students in African American Literature asked why we celebrate MLK day and not Malcolm X day. My answer was similar to yours here. I think that our discomfort with violent means extends beyond Virginia and given Nelson Mandela&#39;s fear of voicing &#8220;by any means necessary&#8221; in Spike Lee&#39;s biopic may even extend beyond the nation.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Levin</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2010/01/15/a-glaring-omission/#comment-13142</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Levin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 18:47:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=6062#comment-13142</guid>
		<description>&quot;But most people won&#039;t.&quot;  Exactly and that is the point of the post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;But most people won&#39;t.&#8221;  Exactly and that is the point of the post.</p>
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		<title>By: jfe</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2010/01/15/a-glaring-omission/#comment-13141</link>
		<dc:creator>jfe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 18:45:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=6062#comment-13141</guid>
		<description>I think I understand what you are getting at, Kevin.  But most people won&#039;t.  To most people, we should only put up monuments to Good Guys.  It&#039;s like the problem Time has when it names Hitler or Khomeini as &quot;Man of the Year.&quot;  Now, a *marker* at some site significant to his rebellion might be possible w/o raising too many hackles.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I understand what you are getting at, Kevin.  But most people won&#39;t.  To most people, we should only put up monuments to Good Guys.  It&#39;s like the problem Time has when it names Hitler or Khomeini as &#8220;Man of the Year.&#8221;  Now, a *marker* at some site significant to his rebellion might be possible w/o raising too many hackles.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Levin</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2010/01/15/a-glaring-omission/#comment-13140</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Levin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 18:37:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=6062#comment-13140</guid>
		<description>Excellent point.  Keep in mind that I am not suggesting that we celebrate Turner.  The question is whether his actions are worthy of being remembered in a public setting such as a monument.  Your point raises the crucial question of whether Turner &quot;murdered&quot; women and children.  We can accept any number of scenarios where the killing of women and children is not understood as murder - for example, the bombing of European cities during the WWII.    &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Does the environment in which Turner operated affect our understanding of what it means to &quot;murder&quot; or who counts as innocent?  Thanks for the comment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent point.  Keep in mind that I am not suggesting that we celebrate Turner.  The question is whether his actions are worthy of being remembered in a public setting such as a monument.  Your point raises the crucial question of whether Turner &#8220;murdered&#8221; women and children.  We can accept any number of scenarios where the killing of women and children is not understood as murder &#8211; for example, the bombing of European cities during the WWII.    </p>
<p>Does the environment in which Turner operated affect our understanding of what it means to &#8220;murder&#8221; or who counts as innocent?  Thanks for the comment.</p>
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		<title>By: jfe</title>
		<link>http://cwmemory.com/2010/01/15/a-glaring-omission/#comment-13139</link>
		<dc:creator>jfe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 18:28:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cwmemory.com/?p=6062#comment-13139</guid>
		<description>The problem, Kevin, is that the man&#039;s claim to fame is leading a revolt which led to the murder of scores of women and children.  I don&#039;t think people like that get monuments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem, Kevin, is that the man&#39;s claim to fame is leading a revolt which led to the murder of scores of women and children.  I don&#39;t think people like that get monuments.</p>
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