Comments on: Where Were All the Black Confederates in the Summer of 1864? http://cwmemory.com/2010/01/20/where-were-all-the-black-confederates-in-the-summer-of-1864/ Where History, Heritage, and Education Intersect Sat, 11 Feb 2012 19:35:24 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: K.P. Marshall http://cwmemory.com/2010/01/20/where-were-all-the-black-confederates-in-the-summer-of-1864/#comment-26790 K.P. Marshall Fri, 15 Apr 2011 12:09:39 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=6148#comment-26790 I am one of the most unreconstructed Southerners anywhere. Probably even more so than our friends down in Brazil lol and I have read extensively and grew up 100 yards from Ft. Lamar which the yankees under Genl. Benham attacked in June of '62. I grew up with two things in my hand, a surfboard and a metal detector. I had the same professor at The Citadel in the course called "Disunion and the War for Southern Independence" as my Father had when he was a Cadet at the school who fired the first shots of the war. I am not a member of the Sons of Confederate Veterans or the Military Order of the Stars and Bars, both if which my heritage qualifies me for, because when I was a kid I saw that they sold t-shirts, bumper stickers, and other trinkets with the Confederate Flag on them. This is degradation of a sacred symbol. I do not believe that the true history of the events leading up to and during the war is being told. The issue WAS State Powers and the only State Power that would get the mass of Southern Men of the time riled up enough to actually fight was the issue of the ruination of the economy by the threat of abolition. The arguments for secession would have been the same if the issue was widgets! Take the word slavery and all the race based drivel out of the individual States so called, and because Jefferson called it this and we of the South rightly worship most everything about Jefferson and his view of what the relationship between the federal government and the States should be lol, Declaration of Causes and insert any thing you want. It really makes no difference. The appeal had to be made to the inherent white supremacist feelings of the overwhelming majority of all white men of the 19th Century to get the Southern Men to actually fight. You've got to be one hell of a speaker to get men to stand 100 yards from each other and slug it out the way they did FOR A TARIFF! I doubt President Obama, gifted orator he is, could even do that! .The federal government was becoming one controlled by business and commerce and very centralized. This was, and is, not what we signed up for and not our understanding of the founders intentions. It is really a shame that The Cause was wrapped up in such a disreputable and shaming thing as the peculiar institution. Because of this most people can never bring themselves to look past what the State Power WAS and honestly look at our position vis a vis State Powers versus federal powers as stated in our Constitution. I say all that so that you know where I am coming from when I say this. I have never believed any of this Black Confederate nonsense. Did some black men who followed their masters into the army pick up the rifle and defend themselves if they were in personal danger? I am sure they did, but this notion of legions of black Confederate Soldiers bravely charging the yankee works in an integrated Confederate Army is the stuff of fantasy. Sorry for the length! BEAT VMI! I am one of the most unreconstructed Southerners anywhere. Probably even more so than our friends down in Brazil lol and I have read extensively and grew up 100 yards from Ft. Lamar which the yankees under Genl. Benham attacked in June of ’62. I grew up with two things in my hand, a surfboard and a metal detector. I had the same professor at The Citadel in the course called “Disunion and the War for Southern Independence” as my Father had when he was a Cadet at the school who fired the first shots of the war. I am not a member of the Sons of Confederate Veterans or the Military Order of the Stars and Bars, both if which my heritage qualifies me for, because when I was a kid I saw that they sold t-shirts, bumper stickers, and other trinkets with the Confederate Flag on them. This is degradation of a sacred symbol. I do not believe that the true history of the events leading up to and during the war is being told. The issue WAS State Powers and the only State Power that would get the mass of Southern Men of the time riled up enough to actually fight was the issue of the ruination of the economy by the threat of abolition. The arguments for secession would have been the same if the issue was widgets! Take the word slavery and all the race based drivel out of the individual States so called, and because Jefferson called it this and we of the South rightly worship most everything about Jefferson and his view of what the relationship between the federal government and the States should be lol, Declaration of Causes and insert any thing you want. It really makes no difference. The appeal had to be made to the inherent white supremacist feelings of the overwhelming majority of all white men of the 19th Century to get the Southern Men to actually fight. You’ve got to be one hell of a speaker to get men to stand 100 yards from each other and slug it out the way they did FOR A TARIFF! I doubt President Obama, gifted orator he is, could even do that! .The federal government was becoming one controlled by business and commerce and very centralized. This was, and is, not what we signed up for and not our understanding of the founders intentions. It is really a shame that The Cause was wrapped up in such a disreputable and shaming thing as the peculiar institution. Because of this most people can never bring themselves to look past what the State Power WAS and honestly look at our position vis a vis State Powers versus federal powers as stated in our Constitution. I say all that so that you know where I am coming from when I say this. I have never believed any of this Black Confederate nonsense. Did some black men who followed their masters into the army pick up the rifle and defend themselves if they were in personal danger? I am sure they did, but this notion of legions of black Confederate Soldiers bravely charging the yankee works in an integrated Confederate Army is the stuff of fantasy. Sorry for the length!

BEAT VMI!

]]> By: Robyn http://cwmemory.com/2010/01/20/where-were-all-the-black-confederates-in-the-summer-of-1864/#comment-26782 Robyn Fri, 15 Apr 2011 03:47:02 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=6148#comment-26782 I have been reading David Blight's "A Slave No More", which contains 2 newly discovered (well a few years ago now) slave narratives. It occurred to me another unique source for this whole black soldier argument are slave narratives of those who ran behind Union lines, which these two men did. The first guy, John Washington, had been an urban slave in Fredericksburg and describes the city when all the Confederates where still there. He notes, "A great many slave men were sent into the Rebel Army as drivers, cooks, hostlers and anything else they could do." Notice 'Soldier' is missing form that list; you would expect for him to mention that if he did see it. I am sure in the hundreds of other published narratives, we may find more of these firsthand accounts from former slaves. I have been reading David Blight’s “A Slave No More”, which contains 2 newly discovered (well a few years ago now) slave narratives. It occurred to me another unique source for this whole black soldier argument are slave narratives of those who ran behind Union lines, which these two men did. The first guy, John Washington, had been an urban slave in Fredericksburg and describes the city when all the Confederates where still there. He notes, “A great many slave men were sent into the Rebel Army as drivers, cooks, hostlers and anything else they could do.” Notice ‘Soldier’ is missing form that list; you would expect for him to mention that if he did see it. I am sure in the hundreds of other published narratives, we may find more of these firsthand accounts from former slaves.

]]> By: Kevin Levin http://cwmemory.com/2010/01/20/where-were-all-the-black-confederates-in-the-summer-of-1864/#comment-13306 Kevin Levin Sun, 24 Jan 2010 18:32:58 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=6148#comment-13306 Yes, I've seen it. There is nothing interesting at all, just the standard line that fails to help us understand anything related to actual history. Yes, I've seen it. There is nothing interesting at all, just the standard line that fails to help us understand anything related to actual history.

]]> By: EarthTone http://cwmemory.com/2010/01/20/where-were-all-the-black-confederates-in-the-summer-of-1864/#comment-13305 EarthTone Sun, 24 Jan 2010 18:14:15 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=6148#comment-13305 FYI - You may already be aware of this, but there is a relatively new blog dedicated to Black Confederates - <a href="http://blackconfederates.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://blackconfederates.blogspot.com/</a><br><br>The blog talks about Black Confederates from a "Confederate" point of view. FYI – You may already be aware of this, but there is a relatively new blog dedicated to Black Confederates – http://blackconfederates.blogspot.com/

The blog talks about Black Confederates from a “Confederate” point of view.

]]> By: Kevin Levin http://cwmemory.com/2010/01/20/where-were-all-the-black-confederates-in-the-summer-of-1864/#comment-13281 Kevin Levin Fri, 22 Jan 2010 01:31:34 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=6148#comment-13281 Excellent point. Excellent point.

]]> By: toby http://cwmemory.com/2010/01/20/where-were-all-the-black-confederates-in-the-summer-of-1864/#comment-13280 toby Fri, 22 Jan 2010 01:00:57 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=6148#comment-13280 It seems to me there is also a marked paucity of evidence from Union soldiers on seeing armed black men in the Confederate ranks.<br><br>After all, tens of thousands of Union soldiers were taken prisoner and saw the Confederate army behind the lines. It is downright amazing that none (at least none that has been highlighted) saw an organised body of black soldiers, or anything even remotely like that. Many Union soldiers were anti-abolition, if not downright racist, and surely would have trumpeted black disloyalty to high heaven.<br><br>Here is a passage from the memoirs of an Irish soldier, Andrew J. Byrne of Dublin. Wounded and taken prisoner in the Saven Days, he was transported to Libby Prison in a wagon driven by a black teamster. Byrne remarked on the kindness of his driver, who have him corn sacks to rest on. He added: "N[egroes] were allways Kind to us and looked upon us as their deliverers"<br><br>I think (contradict me if I am wrong) that Byrne was encountering a typical response from a black Southerner meeting a Union soldier when no white Confederate was nearby. Where then, are the black Confederate who would have aroused great curiousity, if not racial animosity, among Union soldiers? It seems to me there is also a marked paucity of evidence from Union soldiers on seeing armed black men in the Confederate ranks.

After all, tens of thousands of Union soldiers were taken prisoner and saw the Confederate army behind the lines. It is downright amazing that none (at least none that has been highlighted) saw an organised body of black soldiers, or anything even remotely like that. Many Union soldiers were anti-abolition, if not downright racist, and surely would have trumpeted black disloyalty to high heaven.

Here is a passage from the memoirs of an Irish soldier, Andrew J. Byrne of Dublin. Wounded and taken prisoner in the Saven Days, he was transported to Libby Prison in a wagon driven by a black teamster. Byrne remarked on the kindness of his driver, who have him corn sacks to rest on. He added: “N[egroes] were allways Kind to us and looked upon us as their deliverers”

I think (contradict me if I am wrong) that Byrne was encountering a typical response from a black Southerner meeting a Union soldier when no white Confederate was nearby. Where then, are the black Confederate who would have aroused great curiousity, if not racial animosity, among Union soldiers?

]]> By: Kevin Levin http://cwmemory.com/2010/01/20/where-were-all-the-black-confederates-in-the-summer-of-1864/#comment-13271 Kevin Levin Thu, 21 Jan 2010 17:52:54 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=6148#comment-13271 Thanks for the link. You are absolutely right that this is one of the more fruitful avenues of research that can help us uncover the racial dynamic within the ranks. Will Greene talks a bit about this in his recent study of Petersburg. Large numbers of enslaved blacks were requisitioned by the government and some free blacks volunteered their services to the Confederate war effort in various support roles. Thanks for the link. You are absolutely right that this is one of the more fruitful avenues of research that can help us uncover the racial dynamic within the ranks. Will Greene talks a bit about this in his recent study of Petersburg. Large numbers of enslaved blacks were requisitioned by the government and some free blacks volunteered their services to the Confederate war effort in various support roles.

]]> By: Tom Perry http://cwmemory.com/2010/01/20/where-were-all-the-black-confederates-in-the-summer-of-1864/#comment-13270 Tom Perry Thu, 21 Jan 2010 17:43:04 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=6148#comment-13270 Kevin,<br><br>I posted last week on my blog about my research in Patrick County about slave requisitions and the use of these people for the Confederate war effort, not as soldiers, but as laborers. I might have missed this on the discussion on your blog, but this is something you have to dig deep into county records to find.<br><br><a href="http://freestateofpatrick.blogspot.com/2010/01/black-confederates-part-one-slave.html" rel="nofollow">http://freestateofpatrick.blogspot.com/2010/01/...</a> Kevin,

I posted last week on my blog about my research in Patrick County about slave requisitions and the use of these people for the Confederate war effort, not as soldiers, but as laborers. I might have missed this on the discussion on your blog, but this is something you have to dig deep into county records to find.

http://freestateofpatrick.blogspot.com/2010/01/…

]]> By: Kevin Levin http://cwmemory.com/2010/01/20/where-were-all-the-black-confederates-in-the-summer-of-1864/#comment-13265 Kevin Levin Thu, 21 Jan 2010 17:23:47 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=6148#comment-13265 I am very much looking forward to reading it. I should be getting a review copy at some point soon. I am very much looking forward to reading it. I should be getting a review copy at some point soon.

]]> By: Ken Noe http://cwmemory.com/2010/01/20/where-were-all-the-black-confederates-in-the-summer-of-1864/#comment-13264 Ken Noe Thu, 21 Jan 2010 17:18:04 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=6148#comment-13264 Kevin: Thanks for the kind words and the book plug too. Kevin: Thanks for the kind words and the book plug too.

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