Comments on: The North Carolina Museum of History’s Loose Cannon http://cwmemory.com/2010/02/19/the-north-carolina-museum-of-historys-loose-cannon/ Where History, Heritage, and Education Intersect Thu, 24 May 2012 16:37:29 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Brooks D. Simpson http://cwmemory.com/2010/02/19/the-north-carolina-museum-of-historys-loose-cannon/#comment-13899 Brooks D. Simpson Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:59:42 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=6671#comment-13899 Of course, I note that this is a recollected conversation. I don't see where either participant recalled it. Shelby Foote may be an entertaining storyteller, but he's not a primary source. Of course, I note that this is a recollected conversation. I don't see where either participant recalled it. Shelby Foote may be an entertaining storyteller, but he's not a primary source.

]]> By: Roy Clement Jr http://cwmemory.com/2010/02/19/the-north-carolina-museum-of-historys-loose-cannon/#comment-13896 Roy Clement Jr Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:18:24 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=6671#comment-13896 I have been a reader of Shelby Foote for many years and have watched many of his narrations on the history channel and he himself has told of a meeting between Jeff Davis and General Lee when Lee first<br>took command of the Army Of Northern Virginia. Gen. Lee requested the drafting of every black man<br>between the ages of seventeen and thirty seven because Lee new than that the south did not have the<br>man power to win the war with the north. Jeff Davis immediately got up from his desk and closed the<br>door and said to Gen. Lee do you know that there are men out there in that hall that would hang you<br>if they were to hear you say that. Jeff Davis lost the war for the south right than and there. I have been a reader of Shelby Foote for many years and have watched many of his narrations on the history channel and he himself has told of a meeting between Jeff Davis and General Lee when Lee first
took command of the Army Of Northern Virginia. Gen. Lee requested the drafting of every black man
between the ages of seventeen and thirty seven because Lee new than that the south did not have the
man power to win the war with the north. Jeff Davis immediately got up from his desk and closed the
door and said to Gen. Lee do you know that there are men out there in that hall that would hang you
if they were to hear you say that. Jeff Davis lost the war for the south right than and there.

]]> By: Kevin Levin http://cwmemory.com/2010/02/19/the-north-carolina-museum-of-historys-loose-cannon/#comment-13877 Kevin Levin Tue, 23 Feb 2010 06:35:10 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=6671#comment-13877 Yes, you would think so. However, in the world of Civil War history anything is possible. :D Yes, you would think so. However, in the world of Civil War history anything is possible. :D

]]> By: Jonathan Dresner http://cwmemory.com/2010/02/19/the-north-carolina-museum-of-historys-loose-cannon/#comment-13876 Jonathan Dresner Tue, 23 Feb 2010 06:28:49 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=6671#comment-13876 Thanks. That does make the Dalton event quite striking. Also makes the whole black Confederate soldier thing that much more absurd... Thanks. That does make the Dalton event quite striking. Also makes the whole black Confederate soldier thing that much more absurd…

]]> By: Kevin Levin http://cwmemory.com/2010/02/19/the-north-carolina-museum-of-historys-loose-cannon/#comment-13848 Kevin Levin Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:02:07 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=6671#comment-13848 Correct. The Confederate government made it explicit that white officers would be treated as having led servile insurrection. Correct. The Confederate government made it explicit that white officers would be treated as having led servile insurrection.

]]> By: Jonathan Dresner http://cwmemory.com/2010/02/19/the-north-carolina-museum-of-historys-loose-cannon/#comment-13847 Jonathan Dresner Sun, 21 Feb 2010 20:50:11 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=6671#comment-13847 Could that be because they expected the CSA forces to treat them like black soldiers if they were so identified? Could that be because they expected the CSA forces to treat them like black soldiers if they were so identified?

]]> By: Kevin Levin http://cwmemory.com/2010/02/19/the-north-carolina-museum-of-historys-loose-cannon/#comment-13846 Kevin Levin Sun, 21 Feb 2010 04:30:33 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=6671#comment-13846 You would think that such questions would be sufficient to cause one to take a step back and reassess. However, in the world of Civil War mythology this is business as usual. Thanks for the comment. You would think that such questions would be sufficient to cause one to take a step back and reassess. However, in the world of Civil War mythology this is business as usual. Thanks for the comment.

]]> By: Marianne Davis http://cwmemory.com/2010/02/19/the-north-carolina-museum-of-historys-loose-cannon/#comment-13845 Marianne Davis Sun, 21 Feb 2010 04:07:38 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=6671#comment-13845 If there were black soldiers and sailors fighting for the CSA in 1862, why would the Confederate Congress bother arguing the issue into the closing weeks of the war? Why would the the Confederate House approve raising a quota of black men from each state, and the Senate quash it? Why would Virginia pass its own law for the enlistment of black men on the 13th of March, 1865? It does seem like a great deal of palaver if black soldiers were already serving with their masters, doesn't it? We have to wonder if the NC Museum of History vets Ijames' work, or if perhaps the NCMH is in the back of a Stuckeys in suburban Raleigh. If there were black soldiers and sailors fighting for the CSA in 1862, why would the Confederate Congress bother arguing the issue into the closing weeks of the war? Why would the the Confederate House approve raising a quota of black men from each state, and the Senate quash it? Why would Virginia pass its own law for the enlistment of black men on the 13th of March, 1865? It does seem like a great deal of palaver if black soldiers were already serving with their masters, doesn't it? We have to wonder if the NC Museum of History vets Ijames' work, or if perhaps the NCMH is in the back of a Stuckeys in suburban Raleigh.

]]> By: Kevin Levin http://cwmemory.com/2010/02/19/the-north-carolina-museum-of-historys-loose-cannon/#comment-13844 Kevin Levin Sun, 21 Feb 2010 01:51:27 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=6671#comment-13844 Interesting passage. On the one hand I am not surprised by the reaction of Confederates. That said, the relationship between the white officers and black Union soldiers stands in sharp contrast to what happened following the Crater. There are a number of accounts of white officers stripping themselves of their rank so as not to be connected to them. Interesting passage. On the one hand I am not surprised by the reaction of Confederates. That said, the relationship between the white officers and black Union soldiers stands in sharp contrast to what happened following the Crater. There are a number of accounts of white officers stripping themselves of their rank so as not to be connected to them.

]]> By: leewhite http://cwmemory.com/2010/02/19/the-north-carolina-museum-of-historys-loose-cannon/#comment-13843 leewhite Sun, 21 Feb 2010 01:44:45 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=6671#comment-13843 Kevin, Well I just did a talk on real African American soldiers, the 44th USCT. In my research for the talk, I found this in regards to when part of the regiment was captured at Dalton, GA in October 13, 1864;<br><br>"The separation of these white officers from their negro commands was an interesting as well as a sickening scene to our southern boys. The white officers in bidding farewell with their colored men showed in no uncertain way their love and devotion to the colored race. Their hearty handshakes and expressions of sorrow over their separation will never be forgotten." Spencer Tally, 28th TN<br><br>Doesnt seem like they cared for the comradery displayed between those white officers and the former slaves they were commanding. Kevin, Well I just did a talk on real African American soldiers, the 44th USCT. In my research for the talk, I found this in regards to when part of the regiment was captured at Dalton, GA in October 13, 1864;

“The separation of these white officers from their negro commands was an interesting as well as a sickening scene to our southern boys. The white officers in bidding farewell with their colored men showed in no uncertain way their love and devotion to the colored race. Their hearty handshakes and expressions of sorrow over their separation will never be forgotten.” Spencer Tally, 28th TN

Doesnt seem like they cared for the comradery displayed between those white officers and the former slaves they were commanding.

]]> By: Kevin Levin http://cwmemory.com/2010/02/19/the-north-carolina-museum-of-historys-loose-cannon/#comment-13840 Kevin Levin Sat, 20 Feb 2010 21:27:37 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=6671#comment-13840 Hi Michael,<br><br>At first I did a double-take as if to ask, "Did I really just read that?". But if you step back it makes perfect sense. As far as I can tell Ijames has never had to engage serious scholars on this topic. He presents his "research" to popular audiences and there may be a temptation to stretch the interpretation for the purposes of entertainment. <br><br>The only other alternative is that he really doesn't know how to engage in serious interpretation. Either way it's disturbing. Hi Michael,

At first I did a double-take as if to ask, “Did I really just read that?”. But if you step back it makes perfect sense. As far as I can tell Ijames has never had to engage serious scholars on this topic. He presents his “research” to popular audiences and there may be a temptation to stretch the interpretation for the purposes of entertainment.

The only other alternative is that he really doesn't know how to engage in serious interpretation. Either way it's disturbing.

]]> By: Michael Lynch http://cwmemory.com/2010/02/19/the-north-carolina-museum-of-historys-loose-cannon/#comment-13839 Michael Lynch Sat, 20 Feb 2010 20:33:44 +0000 http://cwmemory.com/?p=6671#comment-13839 His assumption about the "soldiers" captured on the steamer reminds me of an adage used by New Testament scholar John Meier: "What is gratuitously asserted may be gratuitously denied."<br><br>--ML His assumption about the “soldiers” captured on the steamer reminds me of an adage used by New Testament scholar John Meier: “What is gratuitously asserted may be gratuitously denied.”

–ML

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