Where Can You Display the Confederate Flag These Days?

Not in Florida:

NASCAR and track officials canceled plans to have pro golfer Bubba Watson drive the car from the television series “The Dukes of Hazzard” at Phoenix International Raceway because of concerns about a negative reaction to an image of the Confederate flag.

Update: Cooter is not pleased:

At a time when tens of millions of Americans are honoring their Union and Confederate ancestors during this Sesquicentennial of the Civil War, NASCAR has chosen to dishonor those Southerners who fought and died in that terrible conflict by caving to ‘political correctness’ and the uninformed concerns of corporate sponsors.”

Not in Arizona:

Janie Maders, owner of AJ’s Cycles and Service, said she had posted the flag on a pole just outside her store a few weeks ago along with two American flags and an Arizona one, because she got it for free and it looked good.

Not even in Minnesota:

It’s disappointing given that it is such a pretty banner. :-)

27 responses... add one

Thanks, Kevin. I read the two articles and watched the clip. None of them indicated it was illegal to fly the Confederate Battle Flag in any of these states. They were just three examples of people deciding on their own to remove it, or not allow it to be shown in a particular venue. I am all for people making such a decision for whatever reason, but I would not like to see a law at any level making it illegal to fly and flag or banner. There are plenty of flags and banners that would offend me. but making them illegal to display is an entirely different issue. I think this would be a much better world if no one had any reason to be offended by any particular symbol, but that is not the world we live in.

Where did I allude to anything having to do with the legality of flying/displaying the Confederate flag? You say the strangest things.

At the risk of sounding intolerant and overly blunt, the Confederate flag belongs only in museums. The Germans have outlawed public displays of Nazi symbols. We need to do the same thing regarding this archaic symbol of slavery, racism, lynching and intolerance.

Chuck, while I probably agree with most of what you are saying, I disagree about making any symbol illegal. In my career (nurse) I have dealt with many people who have strong emotional responses to various symbols. It can be quite disabling for a person. Helping them understand their feelings and learning to seperate symbols from reality can be very empowering for the person.

Arleigh-The problem is that the Confederate flag is a situation in which the symbol and the reality are inseparable. The problem is not the Civil War, IMHO. One doesn’t get this visceral reaction to the First National Flag of the Confederacy or to the Palmetto Flag of South Carolina. The problem with what is called the Confederate Flag (it never was the national flag, per se, although it appears in the canton area of the Second and Third National flags.) is a 20th century phenomenon. It still is being used by white supremacists. I once asked a dear friend (white) from NC, who was passionately arguing the heritage not hate position, that if he were a black man back home, walking by himself alone down a country road and a pickup truck flying a Confederate flag and full of good old boys whooping and hollering, would his reaction be, (1) oh goody, reenactors! or (2) uh oh, I’d better get out of here ASAP. He thought it over carefully and very quietly replied, “I’d think I’d better get out of here ASAP.”

It won’t be illegal to fly or otherwise display the Battle Flag. That’s a First Amendment violation. However, someone who chooses to do so will almost certainly have to deal with the opinions of people exercising THEIR First Amendment rights.

You obviously do not understand “Godwin’s Law” if you think it applies to Chuck’s analogy.

What’s not to understand, Michael? A Nazi reference in a Confederate flag thread? Loser. I’ve wasted a good bit of my life the last 20 years on usenet groups and various other kinds of internet forums. I’m not inclined to have you or anyone else suggest that I don’t know how to apply Godwin’s Law. Have a nice day.

Having a very nice day, thanks for the good wishes! :)

Loser? The fact that you choose to call me names is indicative of your lack of ability to argue this intelligently. And your 20-year usenet pedigree makes no impression on me, since my own usenet experience predates it by close to 10 years, back in the day when the only access was via unix shell accounts.

And I did not “suggest.” I flat out said that you don’t understand Godwin’s Law if you think that it applies to Chuck’s analogy. Chuck did not compare the Confederacy with the Nazis. What he pointed to was his opinion that once a symbol is tainted (as was the swastika) it will continue to bear that taint in the minds of many people. The example of Nazi Germany’s perversion of the swastika is an excellent example of that phenomenon in modern times. Even down to the fact that there are groups currently involved in “reclaiming” the swastika just as some Confederate heritage folks attempt to do regarding the appropriation of the CBF by racist hate groups.

Regardless of whether or not you agree with Chuck that it should be outlawed (I don’t agree, btw) I still say that your knee-jerk attempt to call Godwin’s on his statement is a fail.

Gee, that’s great. Two old goats locking horns over the proper use of an internet meme….

Just for the record, I did not call you a loser, personally. That word applies to Chuck’s argument. Perhaps I could have stated that more clearly. I am quite aware, thank you very much, that Chuck did not compare the Confederacy with the Nazis. But he equated their symbols, and opined that Confederate symbols be accorded the same legal status as Nazi symbols have in Germany, and then frosted his little cake the usual “symbol of slavery, racism, lynching and intolerance” confection. That’s good enough for me.

I remain honestly grateful that you are having a nice day, and wish to extend my best wishes for the future, as you and I both understand that to mean. :-)

Are you CRAZY to compare the Confederate (Battle-) Flag with the Nazis? Are you out of your mind? You need a decent HISTORY, my dear! What a dumb comment that is.

Sorry, Kevin. I did not mean to insult you. Your headline says:

“Where Can You Display the Confederate Flag These Days?”

Below that the headers say:

“Not in Florida:”
“Not in Arizona:”
“Not even in Minnesota:”

What did you find strange in my comment? I would have hoped you would find it supportive.

Always great when a politician makes a verbal or symbolic statement and then claims he can’t be criticized because of the First Amendment. We have free speech precisely so that bad ideas will be exposed to the cleansing light of the free marketplace of ideas.

How would you like to pay no property taxes? Apparently that was what the Confederacy stood for.

I struggle with the fact that I do not seem to make myself clear. My communications skills are poor. I am trying to say three things:

It is not illegal to fly what folks incorrectly call “The Confederate Flag”,

nor do I believe that laws should be passed to make any symbol illegal,

and I think that people who confuse a symbol with reality should be offered supportive help to distinguish the difference between the two.

I know that you are all very intelligent, good people, and I do not see why you want to read anything more into these statement.

It is not illegal to fly what folks incorrectly call “The Confederate Flag”,

I never said it was illegal.

nor do I believe that laws should be passed to make any symbol illegal,

I never suggested that such laws should be passed.

and I think that people who confuse a symbol with reality should be offered supportive help to distinguish the difference between the two.

Since I have no idea what that means I will refrain from replying. I hope I’ve made myself clear.

Kevin,

We appear to agree on all issues except for the one I did not express clearly. I am not sure that I was telling you anything about what you did ot did not say (other then copying and pasting some parts that I thought I might not have explained properly), but was simply making an observation on the articles and video.

As to my third point, perhaps this will help. (On the other hand, it just might further confuse things.)

I strongly oppose any law that would make it illegal to burn the United States Flag. That is not because I feel any animosity toward our flag, but because I feel strongly about our Constitution and because I believe the people who get upset when a US Flag is burned are confusing the symbol for the reality.

I hope this will not be seen as an argumentum ad misericordiam.

I strongly oppose any law that would make it illegal to burn the United States Flag. That is not because I feel any animosity toward our flag, but because I feel strongly about our Constitution and because I believe the people who get upset when a US Flag is burned are confusing the symbol for the reality.

That’s wonderful, Arleigh, but I still have no idea why you feel a need to share this with me. Now, can we please end this thread?

Ben “Cooter” Jones is rightfully upset. It IS a BEAUTIFUL banner! Long may it wave!
Of course the General Lee was subject to a wanton unprovoked attacked by the naacp in 2007 Cincinatti resulting in broken contracts and more power to the professionally offended classes, and Ben “Cooter” Jones, as well as John “Bo” Schnieder got involved in that fight.

All this caving to PC pressure will stop when folks realize that the destruction of honest American values is being led by race baiters and shakedown artists who seek only more power for themselves.

Come off it NA$TYCAR – you’ve had 10 full years of multicult and diversity and the best you can show for all that is to crush a golfer’s plan of a single lap around a racetrack?

Obviously everyone is missing the bigger picture. If you listen to the lyrics of the Dukes of Hazzard theme song, you’ll hear this telling line:

“Just two good old boys…fighting the system like two modern day Robin Hoods.”

NASCAR was obviously caught promoting a secret agenda of communistic redistribution of wealth, and tried to divert attention from their Bolshevik schemes by throwing out the red herring of the Confederate flag issue.

The Confederate flag is a symbol of racism and treason. The CSA was a pro slavery insurection against the United States. It’s memory as something good has only survived because of the lost cause myth and the general misunderstanding about what caused the war.

The Confederate States of America was a nation created to protect slavery and it’s expansion from the incoming administation of Abraham Lincoln, it’s founders said so vehemently. It’s vice president Alexander Stephens infamously said in 1861,

“Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.”

Ok? But the confederate flag wasn’t the national flag the national flag the stars and bar and they use the confederate BATTLE flag so they could see the deferent between the south and the union

There were several leaders of southern states who were fighting to allow new states the right to decide whether they had slavery. The Civil War was fought to keep those southern states from leaving the Union. Lincoln himself promised the South he would not interfere with slavery. Though tariffs and other issues played a large part, certainly most slave owners, about 25% of the white population, pushed for the South to secede mostly to protect slavery but most in the Union were absolutely NOT fighting to end it. In fact, when Lincoln wrote of his opinion of blacks he stated the same racist beliefs as Stephens. He didn’t share the same opinion of slavery of course. Again, Lincoln didn’t want the South leaving the Union they had voluntarily joined but he had no intention of freeing anyone.

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